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After 20 years (80s-now) the people that left to live there are finally finding out it was not what they expected??? Sounds like they just got older and their taste may have changed in life. I dont think that is the south or Atlantas fault but someone finding different intrest.
I am told that it is very competitive in terms of obtaining material goods and the buy big houses and cars attitude put a lot of people into debt. Yes, a lot of middle class black people are there but it being "THE" Mecca is overrated. There are other places to go now (that I mentioned in my post) that seem to have better job opportunities and not so much of the competitive lifestyle.
As a recent transplant from Queens to Atlanta, GA I have a few thoughts about your post. I recognize that I am in the deep south, and it can be very racist, although I've have yet to be called a n***er to my face (yet?). Growing up in South Jamaica, Queens (in the 70's and 80's) which was adjacent to Ozone Park and Howard Beach I experienced more overt racism than probably many people in the south. Growing up I have been called n***er to my face several times by adult white men as well.
Although those neighborhoods now have been diluted with a heavy influx of asians, indians, etc, back in the day if you were black you knew to stay out of those nieghborhoods. We all remember back in 1986 the black man was chased unto the Belt Pkwy into to traffic. I also went to HS with white kids from Glendale, Ridgewood and Middle Village and they were also overtly racist. So let's not act like New York City has always been a bastion of racial tolerance. At the end of the day, there is a equal share of institutional racism and overt racism all over the country. Living down here I also realize that New York City is extremely segregated. Maybe a little less in the last 10-15 years with alot of neighborhoods being gentrifyed, but still extremely segregated.
My experience so far is living in the city of Atlanta, I'm sure the further I venture into Georgia, the racist redneck factor increases. But the further you go upstate NY or into central and south NJ (even Staten Island) it's the same redneck factor. Leaving a business meeting outside of Philly last year, I'm driving down a residential street in Conshohocken, PA and saw numerous confederate flags. Being that PA was not a Confederate state, that's a message right there. So like I said it's racist everywhere in the great country.
So many people are returning to NY from the South is because they moved without a plan and a job. Honestly I wouldn't have moved if my company didn't transfer me. To relocate without employment is extremely risky. Some expect the streets to be paved with gold, and once they get here (or there) they are very disappointed. That goes for relocating anywhere.
As far as the subject of the thread, black american, west indian, puerto rican, dominican, etc we are all of African descent. We should embrace that commonality, and stop holding on to the flag and nationalities of our oppressors...cause we have been divided and conquered.
i agree my aunt moved to atlanta without a job and she suffered for years. All though now she is doing fine but if it has lasted any longer she would of came back to nyc.
Also, articles like this conveniently fall under the cracks but this further goes on to prove exactly what I've been saying... There's no mass exodus that you're seeing... You're just seeing the natural progression of things...
90 percent of those blacks are west indian. I live in southern brooklyn(midwood) so i can really speak on this.
plus im haitian american, and all though my building has 3 black families we are all west indian. The other families are from belize, and grenada, and we have 2 puerto rican households as well.
Mill basin is pretty much becoming another canarsie, and north gerogetown as well.
Also in midwood the avenu k area, and avenue h areas, and on ocean between ave l, and h is pretty much filled with a lot of haitian households.
Just to add in my two cents, there's a good percentage blacks in NYC that are of West Indian descent. Go to Crown Heights, Flatbush, East Flatbush, Canarsie, NW Bronx, Southeast Queens and other neighborhoods & you'll find plenty of us there. However, despite the migration to the South, there are still LOTS of black Americans in NYC especially in Harlem, South Bronx, Bed Stuy, Brownsville, Fort Greene/Clinton Hill and others. As queensgrl mentioned, there are Caribbeans who have moved down south. Most of my father side of the family moved to Florida (mainly from NJ, practically all of my mom side still live in NY) around the late 90s/early 00s because of the weather. However, what anon1 points out is true, there are a good amount of New Yorkers (and Jersey people) who dislike living down south and do move back to the north. And the southern migration is definitely passed its peak. Just my observation.
i consider brownsville a west indian neighborhood. idk why it seems as if west indians show out in the neighborhood more then black americans.
Sorry...I don't see that at all. The biggest difference between me and my cousins is the accent. Remember...the influence goes both ways. The kids in the West Indies are also heavily influenced by American culture. They watch 106 & Park, the Game, the Bad Girls Club and all of that other crap down in Barbados, too. I don't feel any less "authentically" West Indian because I grew up in the States.
I don't know about anyone else on here, but I get excited when I meet Bajans. It doesn't matter if you grew up in London or Christ Church. I have nothing but LOVE in my heart for all West Indians and especially for my Bajans.
Now there may be more tension between, say, Trinis and Bajans or Guyanese and Bajans. But I've never heard anyone refer to recent immigrants from the West Indies as "Church Avenue people." That's news to me.
barbados is the most yankeed out islandd in the caribbean. In fact ive met bajans who have been here for like what? 3 years and speak perfect english but this also has something to do with barbados having the highest level of education in the Caribbean i believe?
Sorry...I don't see that at all. The biggest difference between me and my cousins is the accent. Remember...the influence goes both ways. The kids in the West Indies are also heavily influenced by American culture. They watch 106 & Park, the Game, the Bad Girls Club and all of that other crap down in Barbados, too. I don't feel any less "authentically" West Indian because I grew up in the States.
I don't know about anyone else on here, but I get excited when I meet Bajans. It doesn't matter if you grew up in London or Christ Church. I have nothing but LOVE in my heart for all West Indians and especially for my Bajans.
Now there may be more tension between, say, Trinis and Bajans or Guyanese and Bajans. But I've never heard anyone refer to recent immigrants from the West Indies as "Church Avenue people." That's news to me.
church avenue is run by haitians, and jamaicans anyway. So it probably explains why dont see other west indian tensions besides those 2.
barbados is the most yankeed out islandd in the caribbean. In fact ive met bajans who have been here for like what? 3 years and speak perfect english but this also has something to do with barbados having the highest level of education in the Caribbean i believe?
Barbados is not a poor and politically unstable island. You don't have tons of people trying to leave the way you do in other countries. So the Bajans you are likely to encounter are the well-educated ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycjowww
church avenue is run by haitians, and jamaicans anyway. So it probably explains why dont see other west indian tensions besides those 2.
I think he was saying that, for example, an American West Indian two or three generations removed from Jamaica would look down on a Jamaican straight from the island. I have never known that to be the case.
And there are occasional tensions between Bajans and Trinis, for sure. Probably more ill will directed towards the Guyanese now. But nothing that serious, really.
Barbados is not a poor and politically unstable island. You don't have tons of people trying to leave the way you do in other countries. So the Bajans you are likely to encounter are the well-educated ones.
I think he was saying that, for example, an American West Indian two or three generations removed from Jamaica would look down on a Jamaican straight from the island. I have never known that to be the case.
And there are occasional tensions between Bajans and Trinis, for sure. Probably more ill will directed towards the Guyanese now. But nothing that serious, really.
probably because goriwn up in brooklyn i havnt seen it. instead ive seen a lot of jamaicans, bajans, guyanese, and trinis attack haitians verbally
but it depends because i currently know a kid who is 2 or 3 generations from Jamaica and looks down on the pure Jamaicans who live in the north bronx.
i guess the equal sign here is just a few jerks in the groups.
The numbers are real hard to guage because as you stated in the last sentence people of African descent are2) because there is no option for me to mark my national or regional origin like for Asians and Hispanics.
My suggestion is to write it in somewhere where you are allowed to make comments, or somewhere where you can fit it in to the page. Then follow up with a letter to the census bureau to request a change in the form that will allow Black people of other origins to indicate where their families and ancestors are from.
The reason I suggest this is because I am an amateur genealogist. Most of the people I assist are African Americans and many are surprised to see on slave list from the south of old census, that ancestors came from the Carribean, Haiti, Jamaica, and Barbados are very common, or from the Philippines also common.
Slaves were listed by male or female and age not name. But can be matched up on the 1870 census because most slaves stayed in the area in the 1860 and 1870 census. Also there are property list that Slave holders kept that list the slaves by first name and age, sometimes listing the parents, and grand parents if they also had them as slaves as well.
Warning: Very painful emotionally to see in black and white print your ancestors dollar value, and listed as a property not as a person, usually on list with list of animals. It is kind of different to know that this is the same grandmother that Great-aunt Jane told you stories about, than it is to just see it in a history book.
The point is that in the future your posterity will be able to see the actual document and will know the places that their ancestors came from before coming to the US. We can now see the documents from the earliest census to the 1940 census. We can see the actual documents after 72 years has passed.
Someone mentioned in a previous post that most slaves came the route of Africa - the Carribean - to the US. In general this was true from the start to the end of slavery. The Carribean had a climate closer to what the slaves were accustomed to, and similar plant life. Once adjusted to that, and the new European language and culture, they would be shipped to the US. Another poster mentioned cousins, cousins indeed as some were kept in the Carribean, some shipped to the US.
Last edited by DAS; 08-21-2012 at 04:19 PM..
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