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So now we know that the "conservatism" of certain people here is really just the fact certain people were severely traumatized as kids and never got over being bullied in NYC public schools.
Thus public schools or the prospect of being around Black or Hispanic kids is "bad" to them.
I'm sorry you went through that, but public policy cannot be based solely on the your victim status.
Also not every well off person moves to the suburbs with their kids, and this was not the case even in the 70s. There were ALWAYS well off people who stayed in the city, and always middle class people who sent their kids to public schools in the city, especially the specialized ones.
See, why can't you post like this more often???
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
Bullying is not limited to urban environments, you have bullying in rural and suburban environments as well.
In recent years as some of the victims of bullies have done things like kill off a bunch of their tormentors, the educational system and society has been forced to deal with it more. We've also in recent years had victims of bullying commit suicide. Bullying victims and bullies are of all races and socioeconomic backgrounds.
Moving to the suburbs does not mean your child is going to live in a bully free environment. To tell you the truth you do have some pretty ghetto/poor parts of Jersey (Newark) , of Westchester (New Rochelle, Mt. Vernon, parts of Yonkers), and of course Long Island. Not all suburbs are well off.
I agree that bullying also occurs in the suburbs, I have some friends who were among the first Asians to move to Great Neck and was told that they were spat on for being Chinese. But it wasn't a pervasive everyday occurance. In rough schools at least duriing the 80s and 90s it was a common experience for all Asians that lived outside of Chinatown. And it's not just plain bullying, but you were a big target just because of being Asian. Imagine being black and instead of being silently being followed by security at a store in an upscale white suburb they literally taunt you verbally.
Likewise what I know of. My hispanic colleagues live in the burbs. They send their kids to suburban schools out in long Island, Westchester and NJ.
Yep, some people here either don't work in decent paying jobs in Manhattan or have selective memory. I have a decent mental tally of groups with moderate to high incomes that run for the hills away from poor blacks and hispanics and on the top of the list are probably South Asians followed by Hispanics. At the bottom are blacks and East Asians. And just be clear this is just from my own experience and I've never bothered looking up stats on this. Also I'm only referring to those with families and kids.
Last edited by bumblebyz; 06-09-2017 at 07:27 AM..
I am sorry to see such backlash from this. It's not inherently a race thing, but a socioeconomic one. More often than not, certain neighborhoods lived in by certain people tend to be on the lower rung of the socioeconomic ladder. No amount of integration in schools can help these children if they are not getting the help they need at home, first and foremost. I am not racist, but it is plain to see that in many lower income neighborhoods which happen to be populated by certain groups of people there is a culture of anti-intellectualism (and by that, I mean simply anti-education), violence and many broken homes. There needs to be a serious cultural shift.
Note, however, that there are pleeeeeeeeeenty of other minority neighborhoods where kids do extremely well.
It sounds like you had long term trauma from being seriously bullied.
Nah it wasn't that serious. I see it as a way of life in the ghettos. But I'm just the kind of person that has very visual/audio memories of certain events in my past and they can be both good or bad. Also my experiences aren't unique, and that's the significant part. Most people in my shoes dont talk abut these things and neither have i. Granted things have changed a lot the past few decades who knows what goes on nowadays in bad schools except from what we can infer from the stats. I just feel there's a need to share some of my experiences when there isn't anything similar in the media.
Last edited by bumblebyz; 06-09-2017 at 07:20 AM..
I am sorry to see such backlash from this. It's not inherently a race thing, but a socioeconomic one. More often than not, certain neighborhoods lived in by certain people tend to be on the lower rung of the socioeconomic ladder. No amount of integration in schools can help these children if they are not getting the help they need at home, first and foremost. I am not racist, but it is plain to see that in many lower income neighborhoods which happen to be populated by certain groups of people there is a culture of anti-intellectualism (and by that, I mean simply anti-education), violence and many broken homes. There needs to be a serious cultural shift.
Note, however, that there are pleeeeeeeeeenty of other minority neighborhoods where kids do extremely well.
I use to think it's the kids growing up and now that im a parent I put all the blame on the parents. Where else do kids that are only 8-9 years old come up with all their stupid taunts. You even see it within cultural groups too, I used to see hear stuff like Puerto Rican kids accusing a Dominican of floating to the US on a platanos leaf. Non-Mexicam Hispanic kids calling each other Mexicans to poke fun.
And this stuff is contagious, I remember in 5th grade we had this new immigrant Pakistani kid, needless to say that he was the new target. I feel like a loser years later after taking part in the laughing when a bunch of other kids cut up his book bag.
Last edited by bumblebyz; 06-09-2017 at 07:56 AM..
Nah it wasn't that serious. I see it as a way of life in the ghettos. But I'm just the kind of person that has very visual/audio memories of certain events in my past and they can be both good or bad. Also my experiences aren't unique, and that's the significant part. Most people in my shoes dont talk abut these things and neither have i. Granted things have changed a lot the past few decades who knows what goes on nowadays in bad schools except from what we can infer from the stats. I just feel there's a need to share some of my experiences when there isn't anything similar in the media.
Often people who are suffering from trauma or some other sort of mental illness are not fully aware of how bad it is. I honestly think you need therapy for this. Not talking about something doesn't make it go away.
Today across the country if a kid is severely bullied in school and is hurt or dies or slaughters other kids in the school there WILL be litigation. Teachers are now mandated reporters, and now have to take action or report it when a child is abused. Bullies are often the victims of abuse at home themselves, and yes teachers have to report that. I think one reason why crime has gone down is due to the schools and ACS, as despite the fact that ACS messes things up sometimes, the fact ACS has done so many interventions and that parents fear what could happen if ACS gets involved, a lot of them do a lot better job with their kids and neglect them less. There are social and policy reasons why crime declined in the inner city.
I agree that bullying also occurs in the suburbs, I have some friends who were among the first Asians to move to Great Neck and was told that they were spat on for being Chinese. But it wasn't a pervasive everyday occurance. In rough schools at least duriing the 80s and 90s it was a common experience for all Asians that lived outside of Chinatown. And it's not just plain bullying, but you were a big target just because of being Asian. Imagine being black and instead of being silently being followed by security at a store in an upscale white suburb they literally taunt you verbally.
This happened to Black people when they tried integration in the 60s and 70s, and probably up until the 80s in some places. I think that kind of overt racism has become a lot less acceptable.
I can't speak for how a young Asian school kid would feel now, but I can say that if a kid is being taunted due to their race inside the school, that's definitely a violation of several laws and the parents can sue the school. Also Asians in large cities are a much bigger presence outside Chinatowns these days, and can now be found in all walks of live and all kinds of jobs.
You can throw a million policy changes and dollars on this problem with little effect. Accountability starts at home. I grew up on an island where your school placement was based on merit/academic performance.
By 9th grade you would be streamlined into classes that you showed a strong aptitude for (within the same school). Sciences, business (accounting etc), hospitality, technical drawing etc.
This is all based on your academic performance the previous years when everyone was exposed to most of the diferrent areas to evaluate their strengths and interest.
Students chronically underperforming academically with repeated behavioural problems were usually counseled and transfered out to 'technical schools' with skills acquisition based curriculum.
Then and now you had students who lived in homes without running water or electricity. The gov't does not provide welfare to the poor. Schools do not provide buses, bus pass, books etc. Parents pay for everything.
The diferrence is that academic and eventual professional achievement are lauded, especially when you are poor! Having a child that is doing well in school?Everyone knows! The pastor says a special prayer at church during exam season, the community has an affectionate for their 'bright' neighbor. All that jazz lol.
High school placement used to be published in the leading, nationally distributed newspaper. Seeing your child's name selected to attend a top performing high school was like winning the parent super bowl. Seeing your name for a top performing school gave you a pep in your step.
Coincidentally, it was usually the middle class and poorer students who excelled the most academically. The rich students had a guaranteed job in their parents business so they had less incentive to work hard.
The poor students were depending on going to college or acquiring a skill so that they could earn a living.
Of course if you came from a professional family you are also going to do well in school.
We don't have expensive test prep centers. Extra lessons are given by teachers after school/on saturdays for extra cash. Or for the super passionate teachers, free.
You can throw a million policy changes and dollars on this problem with little effect. Accountability starts at home. I grew up on an island where your school placement was based on merit/academic performance.
By 9th grade you would be streamlined into classes that you showed a strong aptitude for (within the same school). Sciences, business (accounting etc), hospitality, technical drawing etc.
This is all based on your academic performance the previous years when everyone was exposed to most of the diferrent areas to evaluate their strengths and interest.
Students chronically underperforming academically with repeated behavioural problems were usually counseled and transfered out to 'technical schools' with skills acquisition based curriculum.
Then and now you had students who lived in homes without running water or electricity. The gov't does not provide welfare to the poor. Schools do not provide buses, bus pass, books etc. Parents pay for everything.
The diferrence is that academic and eventual professional achievement are lauded, especially when you are poor! Having a child that is doing well in school?Everyone knows! The pastor says a special prayer at church during exam season, the community has an affectionate for their 'bright' neighbor. All that jazz lol.
High school placement used to be published in the leading, nationally distributed newspaper. Seeing your child's name selected to attend a top performing high school was like winning the parent super bowl. Seeing your name for a top performing school gave you a pep in your step.
Coincidentally, it was usually the middle class and poorer students who excelled the most academically. The rich students had a guaranteed job in their parents business so they had less incentive to work hard.
The poor students were depending on going to college or acquiring a skill so that they could earn a living.
Of course if you came from a professional family you are also going to do well in school.
We don't have expensive test prep centers. Extra lessons are given by teachers after school/on saturdays for extra cash. Or for the super passionate teachers, free.
An island that you cannot name does not make you knowledge about what goes on in public schools, or what needs to happen in public schools.
The comparatively low pay and the work conditions in public school education are such that teachers often move on to other careers. Especially in a place like NYC. How many students the teacher has in his/her classroom, the work load given to the teacher, among other conditions affect how long the teacher is going to be willing to stay on the job. The curriculum the teacher teaches (curriculum is mandated by administrators) also affects the teacher's enjoyment of the job, as teachers generally hate teaching to standardized test.
It amazes me how everyone with superficial knowledge of something (a few newspaper articles, childhood memories of growing up on an island) somehow declares themselves authorities on things they know nothing about.
You don't know anything about educational policy in NY, and on whether it has improved outcomes or not (there have been increased graduation rates). States like NY and California have large numbers of immigrant parents who don't always know English, and foreign language acquisition itself can be a challenge, along with certain socioeconomic conditions. If the parents are arrested for weed possession I doubt they will be able to help their students with homework, so even something like legalizing weed and reducing the number of people arrested has major consequences in change for the outcomes of students (drug users have children).
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