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It is a fact that a disproportionate % of kids of color come from homes where parents are less able to provide support to ensure that their kids are high performers.
It is also a fact that most of the middle class black and Latino households were squeezed out of Manhattan a while back. So that borough has the worst income inequality in the city. So many of these black and Latino kids come from some of the poorest families in the city.
It has been proven that kids whose parents are educated, receive way more support than those whose parents aren't. So all things being equal their cognitive skills are more developed, so they do better academically. In Manhattan class closely correlates to ethnicity.
Don't bring in the kids from poor Chinese families because while they might pass the tests (because they go to test cram schools) when you actually meet them sometimes they lack some of the basic social skills that black and Latino kids have. Skills important for success in life. Many of them also have poor writing skills and an inability to communicate. I don't blame them. They are who they are based on the limitations of the environment within which they were raised. Family AND school.
I know of a Chinese woman who hires them as interns and she has pointed out to me all of their flaws. Even though she is also an immigrant, being highly educated she has provided an environment for her kids that way exceeds what these poor kids get. It becomes a cruel shock for some when they begin to work and discover that life isn't merely about checking the right box. Having initiative and an ability to communicate is vital. She even has to train some of them about how to greet a client when they enter the office. She had them practice with me, so that they didn't embarrass her, should one of her clients appear.
The thing is though just because someone comes from a poor background doesn't mean that the parents don't want their kids to get a good education or that they aren't capable. That's the part that I find annoying in moving kids out of their communities to go to school elsewhere. Moving them to these schools doesn't address the root problem, which is the parents. I know of a Korean family that lives in Yorkville in a doorman building. The mother speaks limited English and the father speaks no English. The daughter was born in South Korea and they came to the States when she was young. She has had tutoring for years now, not because she is doing poorly, but because her mother realizes the importance of her interacting with people who are proficient in English and also to ensure that she gets the academic support that neither of her parents can give her because of their limited English. They clearly come from an educated family in Korea given where they live and understand the importance of education.
I have to be frank and say this, but if Latoya and Shaniqua don't give a damn, you can put their kids in whatever school you want. It starts with the parents and we as a society have to start holding parents accountable instead of putting the blame and guilt on families that give a damn. Give the teachers in these schools the support... The financial support and anything they need. It takes a lot for schools in the hood to achieve... The kids have other worries. Are we saying that those worries go away just because they get transported to another school? No. They still come back to the ghetto afterwards. Now, their environment during the day may be influential in them trying to achieve something, but that's the only thing that changes. In my mind it's up to the DOE to create that environment in the communities where these kids live at.
Charter schools get a lot of slack, but they deserve mentioning because they are mainly black and brown and the children perform well because they have parents that care. In other words, black and brown kids CAN and DO perform. They have to have parents that care. Address that problem and there's no need to go moving kids to schools outside of their community.
Someone attacked me in another thread when I said that education is cultural. I'm sorry but it's true. There is a stigma in the black and brown community in some cases about getting an education despite what parents may tell their children. They say get an education as if that takes care of everything. I don't think that just because a parent is poor that they can't support their kid. Maybe they don't have the educational skills, but they sure as hell can love their kid and show them that they support them trying to go in the right direction, and that often times is not there. I've seen it first hand, where the mother will pull the kid out of school to watch the younger kids or what have you. Meanwhile all she yells about is the kid needs to get a good education, but her actions show otherwise.
Contrast that by all of the other poor black, brown and Asian families that manage to overcome all of the obstacles of being poor (and language barriers in some cases) and seeing that their kids succeed. The question in my mind is is why is education NOT valued in some communities? I think you have to look at our society. Do we see lots of black and brown people in areas of tech or finance? I don't. A handful... So you're a minority. You break your rear to get a good education and then what? Does that get you that high paying job? For some Asians yes? For a small amount of black and brown folks, yes, but I think there's still this barrier or ceiling that limits some black and brown kids in particular from feeling as if they can achieve their full potential and throughout this discussion that's something BugsyPal has glossed over.
Everything isn't about race, but at the same time, I think a serious discussion has to be had about why more black and brown kids don't value education? It's not just about economics either.
Don't bring in the kids from poor Chinese families because while they might pass the tests (because they go to test cram schools) when you actually meet them sometimes they lack some of the basic social skills that black and Latino kids have. Skills important for success in life. Many of them also have poor writing skills and an inability to communicate. I don't blame them. They are who they are based on the limitations of the environment within which they were raised. Family AND school.
I know of a Chinese woman who hires them as interns and she has pointed out to me all of their flaws. Even though she is also an immigrant, being highly educated she has provided an environment for her kids that way exceeds what these poor kids get. It becomes a cruel shock for some when they begin to work and discover that life isn't merely about checking the right box. Having initiative and an ability to communicate is vital. She even has to train some of them about how to greet a client when they enter the office. She had them practice with me, so that they didn't embarrass her, should one of her clients appear.
So poor Chinese families have children born in America who have poor writing skills and cannot communicate. What? Most of the Asian Americans 2nd generation could speak English fluently and have pretty good writing skills. If they didn't, they wouldn't be able to get into specialized high schools. Most Chinese American kids don't have problems with writing skills or speaking skills, unless you mean immigrants children who just came to America with their parents. ESL kids basically. Can you specify if these kids are immigrant kids or Asian Americans because I don't think kids get hired for interns.
Last edited by Bumbleboom; 04-30-2018 at 05:32 PM..
Reason: less stuff
The problem is that African Americans and Hispanic communities don't value education. They see it as a magic solution. That the school make the children smart. It doesn't work that way. Good school have good students. Even if bad students go to a good school, they will either have to rise to the occasion or flunk out. Most of the applicants to SHSAT are black and brown. What is stopping them from taking cram schools? It is the attitude that education is for losers. They would rather have fun now. The parents demand their kids have education while the kids themselves are indifferent. These kids see smart children go to school and have tons of homework, and they don't want that life.
It is the students who make the school. It isn't the school who turns students into genius. A quick solution isn't a fix. It is what happens outside of the school that really counts.
The problem is that African Americans and Hispanic communities don't value education. They see it as a magic solution. That the school make the children smart. It doesn't work that way. Good school have good students. Even if bad students go to a good school, they will either have to rise to the occasion or flunk out. Most of the applicants to SHSAT are black and brown. What is stopping them from taking cram schools? It is the attitude that education is for losers. They would rather have fun now. The parents demand their kids have education while the kids themselves are indifferent. These kids see smart children go to school and have tons of homework, and they don't want that life.
It is the students who make the school. It isn't the school who turns students into genius. A quick solution isn't a fix. It is what happens outside of the school that really counts.
Yes, I think these rappers and basketball and football players don't help. The imagine that black and brown kids get is that why do I have to study hard? I can just become a basketball player or a rapper. It's "easier". That and image is important as well. That's what I was trying to state earlier but you've done a better job of doing so, so why is that these people are idolized? Well that in part has to do with the environment that they see and experience.
Bringing this back on home; if anyone bothered to read the linked WSR story, it was the parents in District 3 (consisting of a large group of whites) that began the process to "diversify" UWS schools. No one said anything about race until the some kind of new schools chancellor made his unfortunate and incorrect Tweet.
Another bastion of white, privileged but socially progressive parents (Park Slope) on their own as well have taken steps to make their public school district less segregated and more inclusive.
Bringing this back on home; if anyone bothered to read the linked WSR story, it was the parents in District 3 (consisting of a large group of whites) that began the process to "diversify" UWS schools. No one said anything about race until the some kind of new schools chancellor made his unfortunate and incorrect Tweet.
Another bastion of white, privileged but socially progressive parents (Park Slope) on their own as well have taken steps to make their public school district less segregated and more inclusive.
So that's it? You're going to pretend you're bringing this *back on home* and ignore my questions to you? You had a lot to say on this and when you're asked questions that don't fit into your little box, you claim that you're bringing the thread back on topic. Spare me with that. Don't play pigeon now. I made a comment... Address what I said.
Exposure to the real world should not mean sticking them in a classroom next to housing project thugs.
True story...I grew up in Washington Projects...was introduce to coke by a lovely dealer on the UES who didn't live in the projects and wasn't seen as a thug with his Ivory skin and Ginger hair. I spent my teen years doing coke and a few other things with this "white boy".
P.S. it was a "housing project thug" that helped me leave the relationship when white boy began beating me.
Moral of story...try not to judge people based on their environment
The problem is that African Americans and Hispanic communities don't value education. They see it as a magic solution. That the school make the children smart. It doesn't work that way. Good school have good students. Even if bad students go to a good school, they will either have to rise to the occasion or flunk out. Most of the applicants to SHSAT are black and brown. What is stopping them from taking cram schools? It is the attitude that education is for losers. They would rather have fun now. The parents demand their kids have education while the kids themselves are indifferent. These kids see smart children go to school and have tons of homework, and they don't want that life.
It is the students who make the school. It isn't the school who turns students into genius. A quick solution isn't a fix. It is what happens outside of the school that really counts.
How are u supposed to value it when most of it's not true??
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
It is a fact that a disproportionate % of kids of color come from homes where parents are less able to provide support to ensure that their kids are high performers.
It is also a fact that most of the middle class black and Latino households were squeezed out of Manhattan a while back. So that borough has the worst income inequality in the city. So many of these black and Latino kids come from some of the poorest families in the city.
It has been proven that kids whose parents are educated, receive way more support than those whose parents aren't. So all things being equal their cognitive skills are more developed, so they do better academically. In Manhattan class closely correlates to ethnicity.
Don't bring in the kids from poor Chinese families because while they might pass the tests (because they go to test cram schools) when you actually meet them sometimes they lack some of the basic social skills that black and Latino kids have. Skills important for success in life. Many of them also have poor writing skills and an inability to communicate. I don't blame them. They are who they are based on the limitations of the environment within which they were raised. Family AND school.
I know of a Chinese woman who hires them as interns and she has pointed out to me all of their flaws. Even though she is also an immigrant, being highly educated she has provided an environment for her kids that way exceeds what these poor kids get. It becomes a cruel shock for some when they begin to work and discover that life isn't merely about checking the right box. Having initiative and an ability to communicate is vital. She even has to train some of them about how to greet a client when they enter the office. She had them practice with me, so that they didn't embarrass her, should one of her clients appear.
What a bigot rant this is. Once all Asians assimilate, you're uneducated kids are gonna be in for quite the surprise. Face it, you can't compete, so you blame.
How are u supposed to value it when most of it's not true??
Who cares about whether it's true though. Are you saying that you have to believe in what you learn in order to value it? I mean seriously, I didn't always agree with what I learned, but my parents certainly taught me the value of getting an education which would ultimately lead to me to getting a job. I think that's what seems to be missing, but maybe education is seen as another form of oppression? I'm asking that as a legitimate question. Education being part of "the system". Interesting... I can understand it if that's how you're presenting it, but at the same time do you really believe that living in the past helps anybody? Ultimately "this system" isn't going anywhere... Unless you have connections, your next best thing is to obtain an education.
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