How can we get Criminals to follow laws?

[Relaxx]

Originally Posted by elnrgby

I have been going through my 300-album collection of old blues during this shutdown, and there are of course some blues songs that deal with crime, but it is never described as cool or attractive - it is usually something violent done in the heat of a moment, with subsequent remorse and resignation of going on a chain gang for 30 years or to the 'lectric chair. Plus, that music is so beautiful and profound (I mean the blues, not hiphop of course :-)... right now, listening to haunting lonesome Delta slide guitar of Fred McDowell... Considering all the amazingly excellent Afro-American musical heritage, why people listen to **** with perverse social messages I'll never comprehend.

For every violent hip hop song, I can show you one that isn’t.

Hip hop began as socially conscious music of urban underclass dwellers. The beginnings of the genre had nothing to do with violence or crime. It’s a very versatile genre.

Maybe it’s because hip hop has its roots in counterculture you dislike it or perhaps themes you can’t relate to or you’re just not well versed in hip hop as a genre to discuss it very well other than over generalizations and stereotypes.

[jonbenson]

Originally Posted by Relaxx

For every violent hip hop song, I can show you one that isn’t.

Hip hop began as socially conscious music of urban underclass dwellers. The beginnings of the genre had nothing to do with violence or crime. It’s a very versatile genre.

Maybe it’s because hip hop has its roots in counterculture you dislike it or perhaps themes you can’t relate to or you’re just not well versed in hip hop as a genre to discuss it very well other than over generalizations and stereotypes.

keep in mind elnrgby is a Wu Tang fan. I'm not joking

[elnrgby]

Originally Posted by jonbenson

keep in mind elnrgby is a Wu Tang fan. I'm not joking

Yeah, I get Wu Tang . But not any other hiphop. I don't think Wu Tang present crime as cool or desirable, they stimulate thinking, and their private lifestyles have not been in the "dumb lavish" mode typically associated with hiphop stars (as I already mentioned, I have a Wu Tang documentary where one of their associates talks how far they have come from ghetto, but he does not say "they all grew up in ghettos, but look how much money and flashy stuff they have" - on the contrary, he says "they all grew up in ghettos, but all their kids are in private schools"). RZA is particularly musically outstanding.

[Relaxx]

Originally Posted by elnrgby

Yeah, I get Wu Tang . But not any other hiphop. I don't think Wu Tang present crime as cool or desirable, they stimulate thinking, and their private lifestyles have not been in the "dumb lavish" mode typically associated with hiphop stars (as I already mentioned, I have a Wu Tang documentary where one of their associates talks how far they have come from ghetto, but he does not say "they all grew up in ghettos, but look how much money and flashy stuff they have" - on the contrary, he says "they all grew up in ghettos, but all their kids are in private schools"). RZA is particularly musically outstanding.

Well neither does A Tribe Called Quest or Public Enemy, Slum Village or The Roots, or Black Thought, or Immortal Technique, or Pharoah Monche, or Hopsin, Cypress Hill or Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, Queen Latifah or Arrested Development or Digible Planets and hundreds more. I’m sure plenty of them grew up in the ghetto. “Any other hip hop” surely doesn’t include most or many.

It would be great admitting that you have a very narrow perception of what Hip Hop and/or Rap is as a genre.

[jonbenson]

Originally Posted by Relaxx

Well neither does A Tribe Called Quest or Public Enemy, Slum Village or The Roots, or Black Thought, or Immortal Technique, or Pharoah Monche, or Hopsin, Cypress Hill or Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, Queen Latifah or Arrested Development or Digible Planets and hundreds more. I’m sure plenty of them grew up in the ghetto. “Any other hip hop” surely doesn’t include most or many.

It would be great admitting that you have a very narrow perception of what Hip Hop and/or Rap is as a genre.

https://www.billboard.com/charts/rap-song

Billboard Hot Rap Songs

_______________________________

If you look all rap songs you can find thousands that aren't about guns or drug dealing or violence
but if you look at the popular songs in rap you see much more that brag about criminality
We can go into this list if you want. Just one example:

(excerpt)

#2
For The Night
Pop Smoke Featuring Lil Baby & DaBaby

AP, big rocks, in the hood with the 'rillas
Five K on the dinner, bring 300 thou' to the dealer
I did some wrongs (oh, oh), but I'm always right (oh, oh)
Said, "I know how to shoot" (oh), and I know how to fight
If I tell you once, won't tell you twice
I'm real discreet, like a thief in the night

Got the game fully shine on my momma's son
Learn 'bout the triple cross when I was young
And I know I ain't goin' so I keep a gun

Nothin' ain't seen, all this money on me
Hunnid racks in the bag, that's a honey bun

I just go Ray Charles, they can't see me
I'm in the Rolls Royce with a RiRi

_________________________________________

There's a lot of songs like this bragging about Rolls Royces, bags of money,
300 K to the dealer, I keep a gun, I know how to shoot

We can go down the list and find more songs. This is common, bragging about guns and drug dealing
flashy cars and money stacks in the most popular songs. It's a matter of degree and there is far too much of it in rap.
The videos are worse because they flash the guns, so that just adds to it.

Look at # 10, that's a pure gangster song

https://genius.com/Pooh-shiesty-back-in-blood-lyrics

Back in Blood, Pooh Shiesty Featuring Lil Durk

I got my own fire, don't need security in the club (Nope)
All that woofin' on the net ...., I thought you was a thug
I ain't got nowhere to go, I shot up everywhere they was
Yeah, you know who took that... from you , come get it back in blood
Extortin' ... just like the '80s, want something back, get it in blood
'Bout twenty some shots left up in the K, fifteen still in the Glock
Killed your mans, you keep on talkin', better get that....in blood

Now look at any other chart, the top songs and you are not going to see all this criminally minded stuff.
If you are lucky maybe you will find one violent song occasionally but in the most popular rap songs it's very common, look at Rockstar by Da Baby that was seven weeks at number one on the US Billboard Hot 100., take a look at the lyrics
https://genius.com/Dababy-rockstar-lyrics
This is what's going on now. Or look at spotify, same situation, it's like advertising for being a gangster.
Tell me I'm lying or out of touch
That's just two of the songs on that link, you already know what it is

[Kefir King]

Make fewer nuisance crimes whose main purpose is to provide employment for cops, lawyers. judges,l and prison operators. Decriminalize ALL drug, alcohol, gambling and prostitution restrictions.

[BBMW]

Going all the way back to the original question, you can't. Criminals are criminals because they don't obey laws. There's no real way to convince them to do so. All we can do is lock them up as long as possilbe to isolate them from society, or maybe execute the worst of them (murderers) to permanently eliminate them.

Anything else is rainbows and butterflies thinking (sounds nice, will never work.)