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I wonder if that 40% number is before or after the D.A. downgrades felony charges to misdemeanors. If it's after, then the true number would be much higher.
I wonder if that 40% number is before or after the D.A. downgrades felony charges to misdemeanors. If it's after, then the true number would be much higher.
No idea but another problem is that the NYPD under-reports certain subway crimes. But the numbers are bad enough even with all that. It hasn't totally sunk in with the MTA that the fare-paying middle and upper classes have abandoned the subway system as much as is possible. WFH allows them that 'luxury'.
Stay away from the edges of the platform, and be aware of any and everything around you. Don't talk to, approach or engage with any strangers. Just keep it moving, if someone approaches. Stay near any police presence, if any cop is at the station. When getting on the train, stay in the conductor car. Conductor can't fight any attacker, but the closer to him/her, he/she can get assistance, quick, if, God forbid, anything does happen.
I live on Staten Island where of course we have no subway service. I take the soft-seat coach-style express bus into Manhattan, it's worth the $6.75 fare for it's safety and comfort. But sometimes I have to go somewhere in Manhattan where the subway is the the 2nd leg of my trip. Not any more. I take the express bus into Manhattan, then transfer to a Manhattan local bus to complete my trip, even if it adds a considerable amount of time to my trip.
I came on just now to mention the buses. OP is on vacation, he can afford to take longer to get places and riding the bus is better for a visitor -- an easy way to see the sights and get the feel of various neighborhoods.
Also, OP, if you are going to be staying in midtown, you will probably be able to walk to most of the places you want to go to. You've been here before; remember the distances between blocks going north/south are short.
Right, I understand why it doesn't strike you as sensationalization because you have a very different concept of when it becomes intolerable as you already felt it was the case prior to the current spike and have felt that way for years. However, the OP had mentioned coming to NYC a few years ago and did not already feel that was the case at that time and now wonders if it's like the Thunderdome. The spike in crime rate if it's already past where you're comfortable riding the subway years ago then obviously means it's already beyond the pale for you so certainly the current spike is not going to make riding the subway more tolerable for you. Does that make sense?
jjbradley and myself still ride the subway and the stats do show an uptick in crime rate, because even as total crime is lower than before, the denominator to get a rate which would be the ridership, has gone done even further, hence higher crime rate. With that, while there is some difference in both what we see and in the stats, it's not something that I'd at least consider equivalent to the subway being anything close to calling it the Thunderdome. The greater and more strident media coverage of it also does not seem proportional to the actual increase in crime rate, but it's not like how people feel things is going or media coverage is going to be directly proportional to the actual crime rate.
I think it makes sense to talk about things generally because crime in NYC subway or in the city in general has always been present, but what is enough to make it so someone does not ride the subway is going to change based on personal experiences. Even if the crime rate had been at what it was in the past when the OP visited, there are going to be people who had bad personal experiences or simply a bad impression of the subway system to the point where they would not ride it--the case in point would include you, right?
And yea, I do think that if someone, including myself, were to personally been attacked, then that would change their views on it, because again, there is such a thing as personal thresholds and differing tolerances for when it becomes not worth it. Given that the crime rate per ridership still means that objectively the vast majority of rides do not result in violent crime incidents, then there's going to be a spread of people with differing experiences of whether or not they feel riding the subway is fine. You're at least now touching on that a bit with saying "I imagine that the OP will think I'm only visiting so it should be fine, and generally speaking, that's true."
I'll caveat this again though that I do think there needs to be institutionalization because as it stands now, it does not do anyone any favors including the mentally ill, to have them in the system now or in years past when the crime rate was somewhat lower, even though most rides now and in the past end up without any crime incidents. Though I think you also have mentioned you have seen crazy things on the subway in the past and that would contradict the worse that happened in the past was showtime and people selling things. That's certainly not my experience and recollection of pre-pandemic rides where I've seen things that are more than just that. Does it make the subway unusable to me? No, not at the current moment and as they are now in the stats, seemingly unlikely to change for me anytime soon.
I also think you're right that which lines and stations as well as probably time of day make a difference whether in crime rate or number of homeless. That would make some sense and pre-pandemic that did bear itself in the stats. Still, if the OP did ride the subway five years ago and was more or less fine with it, then the bump in crime rate that resulted from slightly lower number of crimes but notably lower ridership by about a third, would seem somewhat unlikely to be particularly noticeable especially since the OP is unlikely to be in sketchier parts of the city as a tourist.
No, that's not it at all. My decision to stop using the subway had nothing to do with crime stats or the media, so I don't see the point in constantly mentioning either. I have been riding the subway since I was a teenager (I'm a native New Yorker), so it isn't something that is foreign to me. The point in time that I mentioned when it felt quite safe was back when I was a teenager in fact. I would ride it with friends to go see concerts, or for other things and come back late at night and we even fell asleep on the subway at times because we did not have any concerns about safety. Me not riding the subway was also about it not being reliable. Safety pre-pandemic was a factor but not the factor. Not feeling safe because of the ongoing crazies just made it easier.
The media has been covering people being killed, shot or pushed off of the platform, etc. just minding their own business. There's really no way to "sensationalize" those things and the fact that they are happening randomly without provocation is what is sticking with people (myself included). They have also been very clear that certain crimes are DOWN and some are UP. Some of the more violent crimes are happening more frequently. Now if your argument is that the media is trying to make things sound worse than what they are, I would argue based on what when they have simply reported what is happening and provided data. In fact many of the media outlets have been clear in focusing on perception of crime, so that is not sensationalizing at all. That is saying that actually the subway FEELS unsafe (there is a sense of anything goes - people smoking on the platforms and in the subway cars (this was not something years ago), people urinating on the platform, shooting up on the platform, etc.), but the overall data says otherwise, and perception is perception. If people see other people being violently attacked, you can't just dismiss that. It happened and that's what it is. I will say that I strongly feel that a lot of the more frequent "anything goes behavior" is very closely linked with the increase in the amount of mentally ill people roaming the subways, and unfortunately not much has been done to curb that, so I expect to see more of the sort of anything goes behavior.
Exactly and if people feel safer because the bus driver is there to protect you, think again! Those bus drivers won’t do crap.
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