My Brother Is Joining the Marines (business, girlfriend, college)
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My little brother (who is 22) joined the marines last year.
It was a good fit for him, because he's always been a gun nut/survivalist, etc.
However, he is married - and it is a huge burden on his wife (and us, the rest of his family) as well. Ask him to think how it will impact others in his life.
Also, *PLEASE* make sure his MOS won't get him sent to die in iraq.
Fortunately (in a sense) he doesn't have a girlfriend or wife, and no kids. Just our parents and myself, so I don't see it impacting us any more negatively than him trying to stay in school burning money.
Well, the military is a good option for people who need discipline... but he needs to think of long term career goals - will the military help these goals?
Have him go to the recruiters office, and talk to current marines if he hasn't already.
If he HAS no long term goals set up... I think the military is just the thing. They give you something to do with your life rather than floundering about aimlessly!
If I were a guy, I'd join. As it is, I'm just on the look-out for ones that are in that need a partner in crime cause every woman loves a man in a uniform!
Disclaimer: Everyman deserves a redhead once in his life... twice if he survives!
It is my understanding that people who work in intelligence often suffer from psychological breakdowns because they are always in fear of being snooped out. Of course, I cannot back this up with personal experience so perhaps what I heard was skewed.
Did you work in intelligence or another sector?
I work intel. right now and was undercover for two years in the civilian world. I worked with high priority A assets for my first two years in the USAF. I never observed any psychological breakdowns.
It is my understanding that people who work in intelligence often suffer from psychological breakdowns because they are always in fear of being snooped out. Of course, I cannot back this up with personal experience so perhaps what I heard was skewed.
Did you work in intelligence or another sector?
SmerkyGirl, I doubt those in the intelligence community have any more psychological issues than people in any other line of work. They may possibly have less because those selected for duty in sensitive areas like intelligence are subjected to far more rigorous evaluation for mental/physical/financial problems than other military members.
Folks always think about what the military is going to do for them. Especially the young boots who don't have a clue what it is all about.
But there is also a flip side to the coin. He is going to have to do something for the military and that always is the catch.
I know a lot about the military. Served in both the Army and Navy and finished out a full career in the Naval Reserves. Intell unit for the Army, nuclear power submarine program for the Navy. Seen a ton of them like you describe your brother. If he was coming to me as a senior person, I would be extremely wary of anyone with any type of former drug history / failure in an educational type atmosphere. You would think the military would have learned its lesson many times over. Guess the recruiters still get away grabbing them to fill quotas. They want the top of the class, not the failures.
I also doubt he is officer material in any form.
You and he should also understand that just being smart is not enough. Yes, it might get you into a good program but it will not keep you there.
Everything is competive and continuation depends on performance. All elite programs / units use a sort of screening method and phases / levels to select out who keeps advancing toward the better jobs. Lots of ways to get cut early in those programs. Folks with drug history(s) are poor candidates from day one if they do manage to get in as a general rule. If you have no skills / MOS / etc and are the rookie and get cut in any type of selection process, those folks typically get routed into the crap jobs.
Many folks with his type background to join the military. Many of those wind up in the dead in / boring jobs. He doesn't sound like first line combat type material. More like a career sorting mail in some depot. Being a foul ball is not what you want to do in any military unit. Remember the military needs good reliable people at all levels. Poorly motivated folks make poor soldiers. The Chinese have a saying about never trying to make good swords out of poor metals.
The best advice I could give is for him to get his act together as a civilian. Get totally out of the drug scene for a long period. That usually means at least a few years. Don't depend on the military to fix a messed up life, they have too many other things to do. I always had a lot of things to do, wiping another runny nosed kid was not high on my priority list.
If he still wants to join the military after a sort of personal rehab program. Then I would say give it a shot. But also remember without the motivation and drive, he is the prime type of person those DI's will love to bust his chops. They have also seen a million of them and focus on a make or break type individualized program to see if they can measure up. They can spot a foul ball a mile away. So he might be the type of person who gets special attention even in basic training.
Personally I always believed recruiting the folks like that was a waste. The overall success rate was too low. To be a success in the military is like all other phases of life. Go prepared and put out 150%, nothing else really works. He is going to have to change a lot of things, especially attitude to make it in the Marines. Military is a good institution for character development but he has to bring the right tools and desire. That would be where my prime reservations would be. Too many missing basic character traits in what you describe.
So my younger brother (just turned 21) is convinced he should join the Marines.
He's been in college for the past 3 years, and more or less flunked out. He started as an Electrical Engineering major, changed to Civil Engineering Technology, then to Industrial Design (making buildings look pretty), then to Glass Blowing (evidently, this is an actual major). He (and my parents) are up to their eyeballs in debt.
He just got diagnosed with mono (actually the end stages of it), got busted being high on pot in the glass lab and was forced to withdraw from all his glass classes by the school. In short, he's been a bit of a screwup (which is sad since he got a 1450 on his SATs).
So now he's lost his direction, and is convinced that school isn't for him. He thinks that he needs the forced discipline of the Marine Corp and is planning on signing up for the "Delayed Entry Program". Apparently, there's no real benefit in signing up for this program, other than giving him a little motivation to go to the gym and start working out. He's shot a gun only once in his life (about 10 years ago when visiting my uncle at a range), and he's never killed anything.
He wears corrective lenses (I believe around a -4.0 diopter) and wants to enter the sniper program. He also intends on getting LASIK surgery, but I remember reading that it can disqualify you for many positions as well. He also wants to go through Basic in San Diego, and thinks he can request the location. We live on the east coast, and I guess the standard base is Quantico, VA? He also has some rather grandiose ideas of being in the Special Forces (not sure what the exact title is for the Marines). Even though he knows only the very best of the best make it into such programs.
Now, don't get me wrong. I do believe that he needs some structure, but his ideas change on an almost weekly basis (he says he's been thinking about this for a few weeks). And as much as I support the troops in all of the various branches, I don't however support the war and the administration that is driving it. It is an incredibly honorable and noble thing to fight for ones country. I have a few very good friends and a cousin that are in various military branches, and would never dream of saying a bad thing about them or their fellow troops.
Additionally, I'm not sure that the Marines would pay back the money he already owes for tuition. I've suggested he look at being a firefighter or a cop/trooper, similarly action filled, but also allows him to have a home life (also with a lot less risk of ending up dead) as well as commanding a better salary and some choice in his life.
I know the government claims it takes care of its troops, but we all know it is mostly lies. There are nearly as many retired troops living homeless on the streets as there are living in homes. The VA has become a joke and isn't able to provide the level of care for it's retired troops that they deserve.
I know it's not my decision, but I can't help but to try and influence him a bit. I'd rather see my brother stay alive and in strong mental condition (meaning no PTSD).
So my younger brother (just turned 21) is convinced he should join the Marines.
He's been in college for the past 3 years, and more or less flunked out. He started as an Electrical Engineering major, changed to Civil Engineering Technology, then to Industrial Design (making buildings look pretty), then to Glass Blowing (evidently, this is an actual major). He (and my parents) are up to their eyeballs in debt.
He just got diagnosed with mono (actually the end stages of it), got busted being high on pot in the glass lab and was forced to withdraw from all his glass classes by the school. In short, he's been a bit of a screwup (which is sad since he got a 1450 on his SATs).
So now he's lost his direction, and is convinced that school isn't for him. He thinks that he needs the forced discipline of the Marine Corp and is planning on signing up for the "Delayed Entry Program". Apparently, there's no real benefit in signing up for this program, other than giving him a little motivation to go to the gym and start working out. He's shot a gun only once in his life (about 10 years ago when visiting my uncle at a range), and he's never killed anything.
He wears corrective lenses (I believe around a -4.0 diopter) and wants to enter the sniper program. He also intends on getting LASIK surgery, but I remember reading that it can disqualify you for many positions as well. He also wants to go through Basic in San Diego, and thinks he can request the location. We live on the east coast, and I guess the standard base is Quantico, VA? He also has some rather grandiose ideas of being in the Special Forces (not sure what the exact title is for the Marines). Even though he knows only the very best of the best make it into such programs.
Now, don't get me wrong. I do believe that he needs some structure, but his ideas change on an almost weekly basis (he says he's been thinking about this for a few weeks). And as much as I support the troops in all of the various branches, I don't however support the war and the administration that is driving it. It is an incredibly honorable and noble thing to fight for ones country. I have a few very good friends and a cousin that are in various military branches, and would never dream of saying a bad thing about them or their fellow troops.
Additionally, I'm not sure that the Marines would pay back the money he already owes for tuition. I've suggested he look at being a firefighter or a cop/trooper, similarly action filled, but also allows him to have a home life (also with a lot less risk of ending up dead) as well as commanding a better salary and some choice in his life.
I know the government claims it takes care of its troops, but we all know it is mostly lies. There are nearly as many retired troops living homeless on the streets as there are living in homes. The VA has become a joke and isn't able to provide the level of care for it's retired troops that they deserve.
I know it's not my decision, but I can't help but to try and influence him a bit. I'd rather see my brother stay alive and in strong mental condition (meaning no PTSD).
Any words of wisdom/advice?
First, I'd like to thank every person in here for their input, no matter the level of support or lack thereof. Just so everyone knows (and I know this is a surprise to Dustin -- RowingMunkeyCU -- that I'm on here) that I am the brother that he's referring to in his posts.
I'd like to clarify a few things that he may or may not have been aware of. Dustin, you give me too much credit -- I only got a 1440 on my SATs, haha. But continuing on a serious note, it's not that I think school isn't for me, I know it isn't. Since my high school graduation and "my" decision to attend college, I have felt out of place, like I was doing something that I wasn't meant to. I say "my," because, no matter what my parents say about not expecting me to go to college, and supporting nearly any decision I would have made (ie, working full-time, going to trade school, etc), I felt it was expected of me to do so.
Secondly, my family only just now knows of my aspirations to be in the military. Unfortunately, I never took the initiative to tell them that my thoughts to enlist began in junior high, not (as my brother said) a few weeks ago. Because of this, however, I don't blame them for assuming that I am making this decision on a whim. Basically what I'm saying is, it's been something I've wanted for a long time, but instead, I did what I thought was expected of me. That, in and of itself, was a mistake. Through the years, but especially recently, I've done a great deal of research on what the dangers and benefits are of enlisting.
I fully realize the gravity of my choice. I understand that my chosen MOS (0311 - Rifleman) will put me in Iraq. I also realize that because of this, I have the chance of dying. Contrary to some of the arguments I've heard, it's a very small percentage of military personnel that are killed in combat. Did you know that more people have died in car accidents in the United States than have been KIA in every single war we've ever been involved in? Just a bit of a way to put things in perspective -- you have a better chance of dying driving to work in the morning than you do of being killed in combat in Iraq.
As far as the care that the military gives its people, I know that there are definite cases that swing the vote either direction. Either you're in the military and get (almost) free health care, or you're out, and you receive less than you should have. People tend to use either argument to make a point. I know for a fact that nearly any Marine (assuming they physically make a good candidate upon testing) can request LASIK eye surgery -- the catch is that there's generally a wait-list, up to a year or more. As far as my prescription goes, I'm the only one in my family whose eyes have stabilized at a low level. I'm 21, have a stabilized -3.0 diopter in both eyes with the same curvature, and it hasn't changed since I was 17. What this comes down to is that I am a perfect candidate for LASIK. This is all beside the point though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic
...If he was coming to me as a senior person, I would be extremely wary of anyone with any type of former drug history / failure in an educational type atmosphere...
...I also doubt he is officer material in any form...
...The best advice I could give is for him to get his act together as a civilian. Get totally out of the drug scene for a long period. That usually means at least a few years. Don't depend on the military to fix a messed up life, they have too many other things to do. I always had a lot of things to do, wiping another runny nosed kid was not high on my priority list.
If he still wants to join the military after a sort of personal rehab program. Then I would say give it a shot. But also remember without the motivation and drive, he is the prime type of person those DI's will love to bust his chops. They have also seen a million of them and focus on a make or break type individualized program to see if they can measure up. They can spot a foul ball a mile away. So he might be the type of person who gets special attention even in basic training...
...Too many missing basic character traits in what you describe...
While I appreciate your response, and most definitely your service to our country, I feel I must respond to some of what you've said.
Concerning the drug use on campus, what Dustin didn't tell you (and never had reason to), was that I never tried to hide what happened. It wasn't as if I went to class, baked off my ass, and tried to pretend like I wasn't high. I know for a fact that I have integrity, and fortunately, I don't need others to tell me that. When I was pulled into the hall (in the first 30 seconds of a 4 hour class) and asked if I was high, I was 100% honest and cooperative. I could have just as easily lied and said I had an eye infection, my contacts were dry, etc. Instead, I admitted that I was indeed high, and when asked to leave for the rest of the day, I did so, without any complaints or arguments. I knew what I had done was wrong. Similarly, when I went to my blow-slot (this is the time that is "ours" in the hot shop to work on assignments), I was told that I wasn't allowed to be in there working. This is because it would look bad if I couldn't go to class, but was allowed to work in the hot shop. Again, I left with no complaints or arguments.
Not only on this day, but every day subsequently, I held the same standard of honesty that I initially handled the situation with, and I had to deal with my department not having integrity. My main faculty went behind my back, discussing the incident without making any move to meet with me about it, even when I did tried to do so. I was not informed of any of the disciplinary actions being taken against me until finally I was essentially forced to withdraw from my two major classes. Granted, they are not required to do so, but it's common courtesy -- it would have been nice to know I was going to get a call from Public Safety (campus security) after work, to come and meet to talk about "allegations" that were placed against me (at the time, I had no idea what he meant by this). Cosmic, you make it sound as if I were a crack addict that won't stop at anything to get my fix. As my older brother can testify, this is not even close to the case. I wasn't heavy into the drug scene, nor did I ever do hard drugs -- I had standards I wouldn't pass. I say "had" because I've made a personal vow to stay off of drugs for good. I was a college kid having a bit of fun and I made a mistake.
Honestly, I can't see how you could possibly say that I am not officer material without meeting me. I tend to think that intelligence, and more importantly, integrity, are qualities much more sought after in the armed forces. And secondly, I am 100% sure that you could find officers who (admittedly or not) did drugs and/or dropped out of college in their lives previous to service. Just because someone has done so doesn't make them a horrible candidate. Yes, it puts them on the radar, and may make it more difficult, but definitely far from unattainable. And again, I don't understand how, simply from reading my brother's post, that you've determined that I am missing too many basic character traits. Come meet me before you judge me. I agree, I am, as you say, a "foul ball." So correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the reason you're required to meet with a recruiter before being allowed to enlist. If the military judged people like you do, everyone would simply apply online and get a yes or no. Fortunately for people like me, it's not like that. I guess I'm glad that you won't be the one wiping my nose for me.
And lastly, I am undertaking a "personal re-hab." I will be moving to Kansas (I currently live in upstate NY) with my uncle mid-January to try and address the personal issues I have and rebuild the broken parts of my life. I am doing this so I am in the best possible position to make something of myself when I do enlist, sometime around June or July.
All I'm asking is that people try and get the full story before making snap judgments about others (not a shot at you, Dustin). I do have the drive and desire to succeed at this, and I won't let the negative comments of those who don't know me well affect me in the least.
~Adam Jones, Future Marine
Last edited by CaptainPointless; 11-17-2007 at 12:52 PM..
My little brother was doing great in college (always on the Deans List) but really wanted to join the USMC then 9-11 happened and that really spurred on his ambition of joining. But of course that made it all the more scarier for his family. In the end he enlisted in the Marines completed eight years did three tours two in Asia and one in Iraq and retired as a Sargent in USMC. and honestly has become a better person for it I'm not saying at all that it was easy for him or the rest of the family but it was something he wanted/needed to do for himself and while I wanted to be all "Big Sister" on him and tell him not to join for this reason or that reason I knew that I needed to be a supportive sister and back him up he was a grown man and needed to make that decision for himself. Thankfully it worked out for the best, He was also able to finish with a bachelors degree in between tours. We are from NJ but he was stationed at Camp Pendleton in California. After finishing up with USMC he rested and hung out for a couple of weeks and then started the next chapter in life and now has a great career to go along with his wife and growing family.
Good luck and trust me I know its scary but it could be a good thing for him.
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rather than floundering about aimlessly!
cause every woman loves a man in a uniform! 
Part of what you might be missing here........
