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I find human behavior puzzling , but this is a guess at what might be going on.
The people you wanted to communicate with, perhaps they've been alone so long, they don't trust anyone reaching out to them.
and I agree with you, their isolation is self-imposed.
I don't suppose this will be any consolation but my conclusion (and I am older than you are) is that people are weird!
I think the thing is to take them as they are and not analyze them. I remember a friend I used to have - she had tons of friends. She was more accepting and tolerant than I am. She was friends with people who I couldn't be friends with. So is one way of being right and the other wrong? I don't think so.
We each have our way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amylewis
I've also had this experience, and there is a thread here about people who are social outcasts, pariahs, and shunned by all. I've been suffering this my entire life since early grade school, but at nearly 60 years of age still cannot understand it. So when I saw this thread with people who have had the same experience I sent them private messages, hoping to compare notes and perhaps finally arrive at a reason for it.
No such luck, they shut me out quite coldly. I so very much wanted to talk with those people, but they didn't want to talk to me at all. I make efforts to connect with others at every possible opportunity, and always I am ignored and rejected, even by those who say they have suffered the same social isolation I have.
I frankly don't know the answer to it, and do not at all understand why I have always been the social outsider, frozen out and ignored by all. Nor does it seem that I will ever find out, as those who suffer the same thing will not talk to me about it. Perhaps they fear that I will also reject them, so they make a point of rejecting me first. I really do not know, but if they will not at least talk to those in the same situation they have no complaint in my view, and their social isolation is self-enforced.
Low-level depression - not bipolar, just depression - can make the sufferer feel paralyzed and unable to accomplish anything beyond the basics. It may take a huge effort for your friend to just get out of bed, fix breakfast, get dressed, etc. If this is the case, it's not selfishness, but it may well be negative self-focus and an inability to see beyond her own situation - which she very likely isn't perceiving accurately.
So - invite yourself over to her house, send out for pizza - your treat - and see if she will let down her guard. Or take over a casserole, or pie, or cookies, if she refuses the pizza. Don't give up on her. See if she will go for a walk - lack of sunlight can lead to seasonal affective disorder. If not, see if she will at least sit outside, once the weather improves. If she complains of lack of energy, ask if she's seen the doctor recently. If she is negative to everything you suggest, then ask her what she thinks might help (and don't be surprised if she responds, "Nothing.").
It can be very frustrating to deal with someone like this - I have a friend who would do anything in the world for others, but who has similar issues which often make them unable to see beyond their nose, much less comprehend how they affect others - or if they do get a clue, they resort to profuse and excessive apologies and very harsh self-blame for even minor infringements. So be gentle with your friend, maybe use a little "gray humor" (the lighter version of black humor) to commiserate, but don't get sucked into her misery. If you know she enjoys something or another, provide a little of it if you can, whatever it may be, and do check in with her regularly.
But do keep some boundaries in place, for your own sake, and remember that it's not about you or anything you did.
I also think it is a lack of trust. I know for women in particular, it seems like it is easy to have a one on one friendship. When you start adding more women to the mix, things start being less civil. You get people talking behind other people's back, cattiness, exclusion, drama, etc. That's when the group dynamic falls apart. It's not fun. I know people who try not to be a part of a group because of this.
I also think it is a lack of trust. I know for women in particular, it seems like it is easy to have a one on one friendship. When you start adding more women to the mix, things start being less civil. You get people talking behind other people's back, cattiness, exclusion, drama, etc. That's when the group dynamic falls apart. It's not fun. I know people who try not to be a part of a group because of this.
Oh boy did you hit the nail on the head there! In my experience as soon as the circle of the girls grows to a certain point the clique forms, and I'm out.
I very much prefer a one on one friendship because of this, it's happened so many times.
this person I was talking out - for example. One day I invited her to lunch. She said she couldn't make it that day.
ok, that's certainly reasonable.
her next sentence was - 'but you can give me a rain date.'
yeah.. I could.. but so could she say, 'How 'bout this day instead?'
this might sound petty; I'm not basing a relationship on this one exchange. I've known this woman for years, so I know how she operates.
It's just an example of a person who doesn't have the confidence to extend an invitation, and instead prefers to wait passively.
I'm not saying any of this makes her a bad person; it's just I find the behavior puzzling.
It seems like she is acting against her own good.
"Might" sound petty? It is petty. You are criticizing her choice of words? Really?
I can understand wanting reciprocity in phone calls and invitations. Many people want that. But not everyone is or has the resources to be a planner and organizer.
You say you have known this woman for years. But it sounds like you don't have the faintest clue about her. You say she doesn't have the confidence to extend an invitation and then you project your own judgment onto her and say she prefers to wait passively. If someone lacks confidence, that doesn't mean she doesn't want to do something. It means she's afraid to. That is NEVER a preference. Go back and watch the video I posted.
You talk about being this woman's friend, and yet here you are, passing judgment on her publicly, holding her up to scrutiny by a million strangers, and condescending to think you know what's best for her and how she should be.
You know what I call that? Irony. You're not this woman's friend. Friends accept each other as they are. I'll give you the same advice I give to people on the Relationships forum when they complain that their spouses and partners are the people they've always been: If you don't like it, leave, because not only will the person never change to suit your tender sensibilities, she shouldn't have to. Your posts here are a shining example of the saying, "With friends like these, who needs enemies?" and I'm not talking about her.
Yes, I have asked her, and she has offered some explanation. which amounts to, sometimes she is in a bad mood and doesn't want to socialize.
ok, I must respect that.
I'm sorry, but this is wrong. You don't respect that. You want her to be the friend you want her to be, when you want her to be it. Not the one she is. Either accept her as she is, or move on.
I just talked to my friend, and sometimes others' depression can bring me down.
so boundaries are necessary.
" it's not selfishness, but it may well be negative self-focus and an inability to see beyond her own situation - which she very likely isn't perceiving accurately."
I think this is true. Maybe selfishness wasn't the best word on my part, it's not deliberately selfish, but sometimes people not realizing their effect on others' can look like selfishness.
I never give up on anybody! Sometimes I need to rant about it, and I appreciate your (and others' ) comments.
Like I said, I really like her. It helps to have people express their understanding of the situation. Thanks.
Interesting... yr comment about a friend who can be overly apologetic, and self-blaming. I think that goes along with low self-esteem.
And one thing I always try to be aware of - and maybe this is the same thing as establishing boundaries - sometimes we can get sucked in, into trying to help the other person "get better", into being an enabler. So it is a balance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek
Low-level depression - not bipolar, just depression - can make the sufferer feel paralyzed and unable to accomplish anything beyond the basics. It may take a huge effort for your friend to just get out of bed, fix breakfast, get dressed, etc. If this is the case, it's not selfishness, but it may well be negative self-focus and an inability to see beyond her own situation - which she very likely isn't perceiving accurately.
So - invite yourself over to her house, send out for pizza - your treat - and see if she will let down her guard. Or take over a casserole, or pie, or cookies, if she refuses the pizza. Don't give up on her. See if she will go for a walk - lack of sunlight can lead to seasonal affective disorder. If not, see if she will at least sit outside, once the weather improves. If she complains of lack of energy, ask if she's seen the doctor recently. If she is negative to everything you suggest, then ask her what she thinks might help (and don't be surprised if she responds, "Nothing.").
It can be very frustrating to deal with someone like this - I have a friend who would do anything in the world for others, but who has similar issues which often make them unable to see beyond their nose, much less comprehend how they affect others - or if they do get a clue, they resort to profuse and excessive apologies and very harsh self-blame for even minor infringements. So be gentle with your friend, maybe use a little "gray humor" (the lighter version of black humor) to commiserate, but don't get sucked into her misery. If you know she enjoys something or another, provide a little of it if you can, whatever it may be, and do check in with her regularly.
But do keep some boundaries in place, for your own sake, and remember that it's not about you or anything you did.
it is so helpful -
I feel so sympathetic bec. you have in the first sentence essentially described my friend.
so I called her just now and invited her to lunch this week.
so who cares if she doesn't call me, if she will probably never or rarely be the initiator - she usually says yes when I invite her, so she must like my company.
so friends are hard enough to find.
I should take YOU to lunch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek
Low-level depression - not bipolar, just depression - can make the sufferer feel paralyzed and unable to accomplish anything beyond the basics. It may take a huge effort for your friend to just get out of bed, fix breakfast, get dressed, etc. If this is the case, it's not selfishness, but it may well be negative self-focus and an inability to see beyond her own situation - which she very likely isn't perceiving accurately.
So - invite yourself over to her house, send out for pizza - your treat - and see if she will let down her guard. Or take over a casserole, or pie, or cookies, if she refuses the pizza. Don't give up on her. See if she will go for a walk - lack of sunlight can lead to seasonal affective disorder. If not, see if she will at least sit outside, once the weather improves. If she complains of lack of energy, ask if she's seen the doctor recently. If she is negative to everything you suggest, then ask her what she thinks might help (and don't be surprised if she responds, "Nothing.").
It can be very frustrating to deal with someone like this - I have a friend who would do anything in the world for others, but who has similar issues which often make them unable to see beyond their nose, much less comprehend how they affect others - or if they do get a clue, they resort to profuse and excessive apologies and very harsh self-blame for even minor infringements. So be gentle with your friend, maybe use a little "gray humor" (the lighter version of black humor) to commiserate, but don't get sucked into her misery. If you know she enjoys something or another, provide a little of it if you can, whatever it may be, and do check in with her regularly.
But do keep some boundaries in place, for your own sake, and remember that it's not about you or anything you did.
I know what is going on, but that doesn't stop it from being way frustrating!
I know they are scared of friendship, relationships.
One person I know - who on the rare occasions we get together - she is funny, smart, deep, all together great companion. Then she gets into a slump - will not return phone calls, will not come out for anything.
Leading me to want to dump her as a friend, but I don't.
When we do connect, she will say how lonely she is, and how no one calls her.
I have a lot of people like this in my life, I seem to attract them. Maybe because I am sympathetic, I know what it is like to feel lonely. I also know that when I feel lonely - no one is going to save me - I save myself - going out in nature, call someone, do something, anything.
but some people seem to want to wallow in their unhappiness.
Yes. You cannot be responsible for the happiness of others. Your friend sounds manipulative. Please don't attract the walking wounded by enabling them. Some people are lonely for a reason. They are that way due to their own volition--or lack thereof.
Yes. You cannot be responsible for the happiness of others. Your friend sounds manipulative. Please don't attract the walking wounded by enabling them. Some people are lonely for a reason. They are that way due to their own volition--or lack thereof.
THIS. If you keep making excuses for this person's bad behavior, they will learn that it's ok because they can still get what they want from you. Everyone has to grow up sometime.
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, but this is a guess at what might be going on. 
With friends like that...
