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I am not talking about a flippant attitude. I'm not talking about thwarting healthy emotions or denying our feelings. I am also not discussing this from the position of someone who hasn't suffered greatly at the hands of others, because I definitely have. And respectfully, I know all about the sort of people who make it a point to continually mock or humiliate you until you are emotionally devastated - I've lived with them. I don't anymore though. I have gained control over the aspects of my personality that previously left me vulnerable to that sort of abuse. If I can do it, so can others.
Just to clarify.
Fair enough. Its just that your previous comment came off as you saying "oh stop being such a weakling"
Fair enough. Its just that your previous comment came off as you saying "oh stop being such a weakling"
I wasn't calling the other person a pushover, anymore than the other person was accusing me of not being empathetic (and surely they weren't, were they?). I was stating the definition of one because I think there's a thin line between empathy and being taken advantage of. I know this because I was one of those people who was constantly being used - I was TARGETED by users who employ emotional manipulation to control another person or to use another person. Yes, there are predators out there who will literally suck the emotional energy right out of you if you allow it and they know the signs to look for. One of those signs is a tender heart, coupled with an inability to say "no" for whatever reasons. The end result is that the empathetic person often becomes sucked into the vortex of a person who is, well, hardly empathetic to the other persons' needs - in fact, usually quite the opposite.
Gotta find that balance in relationships. I am all for empathy - in fact, one of my life mottoes is "Seek first to understand," and you can't understand another person's perspective without employing some empathy. But there's a big difference between understanding...and making excuses for bad behavior.
I find it ironic that so many people (not pointing any fingers here, just speaking generally) worry so much about how people are going to feel or think about them - when so often it's very obvious that the person THEY are worried about is not worried about them in the least! That's a sure sign that something is off kilter in the relationship.
That's it....you are not a robot that has buttons people can push....
Like I hear in this Non-romantic Section so much.
You have so much power that if you focused you would be like a laser.
Someone can scream 4 inches from your face and fire you...and still you can walk away
feeling fine....come on, guys!
Relationships are inevitable on earth...learn no one controls 'you'...and your feelings.
There , thank you.
Well you're right we're not robots. Which means we have emotions and feelings.
This is very easy to say, and yes you can control how you react if as you said someone is screaming in your face, but that doesn't mean it won't be upsetting.
That would only be true of a robot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird
You can't control how you feel, you can control how you react to your feelings. Psych 101. (eta, most of the time. People with specific mental health problems or people without the tools to cope will react instinctively. the goal in therapy, often, is to learn skills to control the knee jerk reactions to intense feelings)
If you try to control your feelings, you can end up with a host of mental health problems. Feelings are not facts. They are to be observed before making a decision on how to react. Mindfulness is the practice of observing your feelings in order to gain a deeper understanding of yourself, and a compassionate one at that.
I think instead of posting lessons and lectures, its important to realize that *most people* are doing the best they can at the time with the tools they have.
Well you're right we're not robots. Which means we have emotions and feelings.
This is very easy to say, and yes you can control how you react if as you said someone is screaming in your face, but that doesn't mean it won't be upsetting.
That would only be true of a robot.
There's mildly disturbing or surprising and then there's the type of "upsetting" that makes one run crying from the room. Neither is "robotic" and I can tell you I much prefer the first emotion over the second.
I can't understand how people keep missing this point - which seems so easy to understand. Sure you would still feel an emotion if your boss suddenly started screaming at us - but there are DEGREES of emotional response. What the OP is saying is that we can learn to alter the degree of negative response we instinctively feel when our boss starts yelling at us...or our mother starts her weird stuff, or our SO starts trying to pull our string, etc etc. We honestly can. We can alter the intensity of it so that even the initial gut reaction isn't what it used to be. The result is that we don't fall into the same negative pattern of response that we have in the past. It's great!
And it IS the EMOTION that is altered, not just our response. If another person tells me that this is impossible, I am going to presume that apparently they have not mastered this yet. This doesn't mean it's impossible - it just means they haven't done it.
This is a theory - no one has proven scientifically that we cannot and do not control our decisions.
The evidence is there however. Which means I have at least presented evidence. You have presented say so. That was the difference I was highlighting.
So while I have presented evidence that calls into question that we make our own decisions or really do control our own emotions - you have presented mere opinion to the contrary.
Is all this 100% proven? Of course not - nothing in science is - but I recognise the difference between someone offering opinion - and someone at least grounding their position in evidence.
The OP suggests we have this control and I see no reason to think we do. And this post you just wrote suggests you do not either. So I am not even sure what we are discussing any more. We appear agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
I will not continue to debate with anyone who continually misstates or twists what I say, or who resorts to personal insults and sarcasm, so if you want to continue discussing or debating this with me, don't do either of those things and we can carry on. Otherwise, I'm not playing.
You will be over joyed to find I did neither then.
The evidence is there however. Which means I have at least presented evidence. You have presented say so. That was the difference I was highlighting.
So while I have presented evidence that calls into question that we make our own decisions or really do control our own emotions - you have presented mere opinion to the contrary.
Is all this 100% proven? Of course not - nothing in science is - but I recognise the difference between someone offering opinion - and someone at least grounding their position in evidence.
You have presented a theory with some evidence to support that theory.
I will present some evidence to support the theory that we can control some of our emotions. The entire psychotherapy practice of Cognitive Therapy is based on this premise.
Quote:
Cognitive therapy is based on the cognitive model, which states that thoughts, feelings and behavior are all connected, and that individuals can move toward overcoming difficulties and meeting their goals by identifying and changing unhelpful or inaccurate thinking, problematic behavior, and distressing emotional responses.
Cognitive therapy is one of the few forms of psychotherapy that has been scientifically tested and found to be effective in over three hundred clinical trials for many different disorders.
Quote:
\It is not a situation which directly affects how a person feels emotionally, but rather, his or her thoughts in that situation.
Twenty eight scientific studies which show that cognitive therapy for depression is more effective than pharmacotherapy, behavior therapy, and other psychotherapies. http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/ccp/57/3/414/
Mindfullness based cognitive therapy offers a promising cost-efficient psychological approach to preventing relapse/recurrence in recovered recurrently depressed patients.
There are many, many more scientific studies out there attesting to the effectiveness of cognitive therapy on our emotions AND behaviors but this should give you a good start on the subject.
Well you're right we're not robots.
Which means we have emotions and feelings.
This is very easy to say, and yes you can control how you react if as you said
someone is screaming in your face, but that doesn't mean it won't be upsetting. That would only be true of a robot.
Exactly!
Or a Buddhist or a person that practices Eastern traditions...or uses their logic
when confronted by nutty people yelling...using
Thought Modification Techniques.
The point, for me, is that it does not have to be upsetting at all.
When we clearly see ...for example...that the person is unstable and
does these things to others...
when we see...we have done nothing wrong and have been misunderstood...
when we see this happens to be that person's issue and
they are clearly projecting their stuff onto me...
Why or how could that, then, be upsetting...they are exhibiting nutty behavior...so what if
they are taking it out on me in front of others even...so?
And there are many other ways we can be immune to upsetting feelings inside of ourselves.
Those were just examples I thought could be easily done.
These are typical first session Therapy Tools given by
good therapists in addiction counseingl to help clients handle stress, btw...not
something I made up
When addicts get upset, they use.
You have presented a theory with some evidence to support that theory.
And you have not. That was the difference I was highlighting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
I will present some evidence to support the theory that we can control some of our emotions.
You can but then you would be talking past me. Because I never once claimed we can not control them - once we have them. I actually think we can.
The only objection I have made is to the baseless contention of the OP that we can control having them in the first place. Neither the OP - nor you - have supported such a contention.
Would that we could. The pain of unrequited love - for example - could be dealt with easily if what the OP says were true.
I wasn't calling the other person a pushover, anymore than the other person was accusing me of not being empathetic (and surely they weren't, were they?). I was stating the definition of one because I think there's a thin line between empathy and being taken advantage of. I know this because I was one of those people who was constantly being used - I was TARGETED by users who employ emotional manipulation to control another person or to use another person. Yes, there are predators out there who will literally suck the emotional energy right out of you if you allow it and they know the signs to look for. One of those signs is a tender heart, coupled with an inability to say "no" for whatever reasons. The end result is that the empathetic person often becomes sucked into the vortex of a person who is, well, hardly empathetic to the other persons' needs - in fact, usually quite the opposite.
Gotta find that balance in relationships. I am all for empathy - in fact, one of my life mottoes is "Seek first to understand," and you can't understand another person's perspective without employing some empathy. But there's a big difference between understanding...and making excuses for bad behavior.
I find it ironic that so many people (not pointing any fingers here, just speaking generally) worry so much about how people are going to feel or think about them - when so often it's very obvious that the person THEY are worried about is not worried about them in the least! That's a sure sign that something is off kilter in the relationship.
We get that way because of (mostly) being around our peers in school, especially the higher grades. Nobody cared in elementary school but up in middle/high when you start getting teased and bullied for everything you do thats not "in" you see people laughing at you even when theyre not. Also, with all of these "people watchers" that you see when you walk into an establishment. They may not be visibly laughing at you but you can just tell from their contorted faces and such that they are on the inside.
You can't control how you feel, you can control how you react to your feelings. Psych 101. (eta, most of the time. People with specific mental health problems or people without the tools to cope will react instinctively. the goal in therapy, often, is to learn skills to control the knee jerk reactions to intense feelings)
If you try to control your feelings, you can end up with a host of mental health problems. Feelings are not facts. They are to be observed before making a decision on how to react. Mindfulness is the practice of observing your feelings in order to gain a deeper understanding of yourself, and a compassionate one at that.
I think instead of posting lessons and lectures, its important to realize that *most people* are doing the best they can at the time with the tools they have.
I totally agree with this. Most of all, I think the whole bologna of "when we react angrily to someone, you are giving them power over how you feel" and such is such a load of malarkey.
Disclaimer--I say this as someone who has at times reacted too emotionally to certain things, and you do have the means to control how you act in reaction to something. There is something to be said for how you respond to how you feel. However, I fully believe that you cannot help how something makes you feel.
Moreover, too much of this attitude and perspective of holding yourself responsible for how you feel or react does one thing that cannot be condoned, I think--it absolves the "button pushing" person from any responsibility for their behavior, basically allowing them to be the biggest jerk of all and pretty much get away with it Scott-Free. That's totally ridiculous.
So--if someone cut you off in traffic knowingly, no you can't run them off the road, but it's fine if it bothers you, and yes, they are responsible for the blatant disrespect they showed in knowingly doing that. You have a child and they disobey you when you've told them what is okay and isn't--no, you are not 100% responsible for being upset about that, and they don't get to get off Scott-free for their disobedience. They are responsible somewhat in that they were told what was okay and not, and they chose to go against you as the parent, when they aren't allowed to do that. At the same time, you can't abuse them and say they made you do it--no, you are the one who responded inappropriately.
There is a reason why they call it "pushing someone's buttons." The very phrase clearly indicates that the offender is choosing to act offensively on purpose. That cannot be excused. We hear all the time about "blame shifting" and how if you flip out too hard in response to an offense, only to say that the other person made you do it, that you're failing to take responsibility for your actions. However, to me, this is the same thing. You push someone's buttons on purpose and there is a response, it's wrong to blame the other person 100% when you CHOSE to act offensively and DELIBERATELY push buttons, when you had been told numerous times before that your behavior was unwelcome and disrespectful. People who engage in that and there is a response--they DID somewhat "ask for it." Absolutely.
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