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To the OP: Do you experience negative feelings when you read in a newspaper or hear on the news that someone has willfully inflicted suffering on an innocent child? Don't you experience sadness and regret at the suffering which the child has experienced? Don't you experience anger at the sadist who has inflicted the suffering? Are you advocating that we should be indifferent to such things, that nothing should disturb our peace of mind? Just wondering.
Do you experience negative feelings when you read in a newspaper or hear on the news that someone has willfully inflicted suffering on an innocent child? Don't you experience sadness and regret at the suffering which the child has experienced? Don't you experience anger at the sadist who has inflicted the suffering? Are you advocating that we should be indifferent to such things, that nothing should disturb our peace of mind? Just wondering.
You're confusing reaction with behavior.
We set rules of behavior - and consequences when those rules are transgressed. That's necessary and appropriate, and not the issue at hand.
It doesn't mean we have to emotionally "react" negatively and angrily when someone breaks the rules.
When someone does something that hurts, humiliates, or demeans me or another person, only I have the power to decide if I forfeit peace of mind. I can acknowledge a transgression without going all crazy over it.
edit to add: I don't recall seeing an example as extreme as you've presented on this forum but the shoe still fits.
If you want to go all crazy and lose sleep over it, that's your decision. Just own it.
Last edited by biscuitmom; 11-26-2014 at 11:04 PM..
You're confusing reaction with behavior.
We set rules of behavior - and consequences when those rules are transgressed. That's necessary and appropriate, and not the issue at hand.
It doesn't mean we have to emotionally "react" negatively and angrily when someone breaks the rules.
When someone does something that hurts, humiliates, or demeans me or another person, only I have the power to decide if I forfeit peace of mind. I can acknowledge a transgression without going all crazy over it.
If you want to go all crazy and lose sleep over it, that's your decision. Just own it.
No, I'm not confusing anything. I was talking entirely about interior feelings (reaction), and behavior had nothing to do with it. It was a question about compassion, really, about whether we can choose not to feel sadness and regret over the sufferings of others.
I was not advocating "going all crazy and losing sleep over it", not is that what I practice. Your response is a rather extreme interpretation of my post, and I am curious why you chose to respond that way. One can be bothered by the suffering of innocents without going to such extremes.
I was not advocating "going all crazy and losing sleep over it", not is that what I practice. Your response is a rather extreme interpretation of my post, and I am curious why you chose to respond that way. One can be bothered by the suffering of innocents without going to such extremes.
I'm more than bothered by the suffering of innocents and advocate in favor of laws and enforcement against such. Don't see what that has to do with OP's premise.
I'm more than bothered by the suffering of innocents and advocate in favor of laws and enforcement against such. Don't see what that has to do with OP's premise.
The relationship with the OP's premise should be clear if you re-read the thread title. It has to do with other people and events and our control of our own feelings.
The relationship with the OP's premise should be clear if you re-read the thread title. It has to do with other people and events and our control of our own feelings.
"Control of our own feelings", in relation to this thread, means that while I support sanctions against others' actions, I don't let those dictate how I emotionally react. What about that do you disagree?
"Control of our own feelings", in relation to this thread, means that while I support sanctions against others' actions, I don't let those dictate how I emotionally react. What about that do you disagree?
Since I don't care how you react emotionally, there is nothing to disagree with. The question that I posed several posts up-thread was directed to the OP.
You seem determined to misunderstand what I am saying, and since there is nothing I can do about it, I accept your lack of understanding with equanimity.
Here's how I see it - there's our initial emotional response to things - which is hardwired into us - and then there are two other issues that hit almost simultaneously: Our actions and our ONGOING emotions, which we can learn to control to some extent. And since these two things come into play almost immediately, I think we can really start splitting hairs about terminology when the reality is that regardless of our initial emotions, we're still responsible for our own actions. And we are also responsible for whether or not we allow emotions to override responsible actions. And finally, I think we CAN often control whether or not we allow destructive emotions to overcome us, rule us, override common sense, etc.
Not always right away, of course. Please don't start giving examples like, "Well if your kid was hit by a car, good luck controlling your emotions!" Let's go with the example of the screaming boss. Sure, we might be shocked at first, or angered, or hurt, or a mix of all three simultaneously. Our jaw might even drop before we know it, or our eyes well up with tears, or we may start to shake. But generally speaking, we can learn to control our response to that sort of thing. And the amazing thing is, when we learn to control our response, often our emotional control kicks in right away as well. And the really cool thing is, we can actually feel better faster! So in that sense, yes, I think we can control many of our emotions and that's not always a bad thing. Emotional control can really come in handy sometimes.
I'll give you another example. I grew up in Tornado Alley. When I was a kid, my default was to be scared when we had to go into the root cellar during a tornado warning. I might cry. I might quiver in the corner with my hands over my ears as branches fell and the wind roared outside.
But when I became a mother, I didn't have that luxury, because I needed to keep a clear head while I put MY kids in the cellar! So - yes, I might be afraid, but I found out that when I ACT calm, lo and behold, I often start to FEEL calm. Now, even though I've actually experienced a big tornado that damaged my house, while the kids and I were in it, I am not really scared about tornadoes. I've had to ACT unafraid so many times that one day I realized, "Hey, I'm really not all that scared - adrenaline rush, but not fear."
And so it is and will be for you. People will continue to 'make' feelings arise in you. Not so with me.
I can still get a small blip on my screen of, say, embarrassment, aggravation...but it lasts 1.5 seconds...
instead of 3 weeks of ruminating on it making it a huge deal.
Exactly.
So contrary to your OP people CAN cause those feelings in you. It is what you do with those feelings that you have control over - how long to let them linger - how to express them or bury them or resolve them.
At best you are telling us - your claim - that you are good at resolving and controling those feelings internally when they arise.
Some people are. Some people are not. Some people pretend they are but are not.
But this is contrary to what you were actually claiming in your OP.
Through practice - meditation - and more we can learn to observe our feelings as they arise and channel them and resolve them and deal with them. But you do not have control over having them in the first place. And many feelings can not just be switched on or off at will. I already gave the example of unrequited love. A problem that would not exist at all if what you said were true.
Exactly.
So contrary to your OP people CAN cause those feelings in you.
It is what you do with those feelings that you have control over -
how long to let them linger - how to express them or bury them or resolve them.
At best you are telling us - your claim - that you are good at resolving
and controlling those feelings internally when they arise.
But this is contrary to what you were actually claiming in your OP.
This must be a pretty subtle point because I'm not explaining myself well, my fault.
The point you bring up is, are ''people causing" a feeling in me or others. Hmm... lemme try this...
I/you look at a gorgeous sunset. My heart swells, I smile and feel connected to
a Greater Power; an exuberant,
pleasant feeling or emotion, right? Ok....the guy next to me looks at it and feels nothing,
just another sunset, walks away.
Now did the sunset cause the feeling in me? Did it create the feeling in me?
If it did, why did it not cause/create the feeling in the other guy next to me?
It was a catalyst, yes.
In my mind, eyes closed, I can think of the ocean in moonlight
and my whole body, if hooked up to meters,
would register calm and endorphins flowing. No sunset needed.
Likewise, why did the boss 4" from my face not cause or create feeling in me...bec
of various things...bec of practice mainly... but the practice of being
the Observer and trusting
that this is a play and we are just actors and it doesn't make
a difference if this guy is mad at me or if tomorrow I don't have a job...why? because deep deep
deep in my subconscious mind, I know or firmly believe a set of
things...that anchor me...I have reconditioned my mind, renewed my mind,
and others can develop this trust or set of 'things' to believe in, also.
Rather than be so darn effected by people and external circumstances....like being 'alone'
on a Holiday, as so many threads have been brought up.
Did being 'alone' cause or create depression and sadness? I say, no.
It was thoughts...maybe going to past memories, maybe thinking they need a girlfriend
to share life with, O, woe is me...but is it the aloneness, itself?
No...it is the thinking or uncontrolled
thinking
that caused the sadness in the first place. This is a key point.
Zen Buddhists have that famous story portraying this point well...
of the monk hanging over a 1000ft drop, clinging only to a precarious root...being eaten
by white and black mice...
when he says, "Ah, a strawberry!"
My point of this thread was to encourage, esp younger posters here, to this 'new' idea that they can find a rudder, and anchor,
a sense of deep peace....so that when a coworker or their boyfriend does some weird
thing they don't feel so vulnerable and helpless/powerless...because they
are themselves in control if they get upset or not...and
for how long...no one can MAKE them feel anything they don't let themselves feel.
A Buddhist could maybe describe this better.
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