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Uh, yes, because people can't stop using diminishing language when they are speaking about women.
WTF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanillaChocolate
So while he may have been crude when he said it, he was probably just saying that it was intended as a guys' night out, and for that night, they're just looking to have fun and ogle women w/o worrying about offending someone. So the only women they wanted to be around that night was the women they'd be ogling, cat-calling and talking about.
Three problems:
1.) He is the Supervisor
2.) It sounds like he is at least doing some of the setup at work
3.) Women were welcome the first time and no other time after that. Now whether is is because they would not hook up with his friends or not is irrelevant because I think that the case could still be made that this is at least one of the reasons he did it.
As someone else already mentioned, men often enjoy the company of other men. They don't want to hang out and drink beer with women, they want to talk about women. Or they want to be free to use coarse language, etc. Introducing a woman into the mix creates a whole different atmosphere. Why is this so hard to understand, and what exactly is wrong with that?
Instead of injecting yourself into situations where you're obviously not wanted, maybe you should organize your own outings with those who want to hang out with you.
Mysterious Benefactor, perhaps you will extend your generosity to this young lady so she no longer has to deal with creeps at work, and can simply abandon her job as so many blithely suggest here?
Then she can leave the boys -- and these are very clearly overgrown boys, not men -- to party in peace as you suggest. Surely the courage of your conviction is strong enough to put your money where your mouth is, Benefector?
This is a WORKPLACE situation. Getting along with that group of humans is essential to her continued ability to earn a living to pay her bills at that workplace. That's easier if she has some fun, relaxed times with those humans as well as whatever stressful BS they face together during work hours. After-work drinks are a normal thing in almost every industry I've worked (as an IT consultant: many). Excluding all women because the boys "want to talk about women" creates a hostile working environment. That's not my opinion, that's a legally-proven fact.
Sure, you can socialise with whomever you please, including single-gender groups. But after-work drinks are part of one's work, not one's social life. You'd tell her that if she was the one behaving badly in her question, right?
Work politics are a fact of life; we smooth our way through with booze and fun on the side. If women can't do that, our careers often stall. If we're meant to have full responsibility for our own success or failure, should we not also have full access to the opportunities one needs to succeed in life, including chances to bond with co-workers, make useful alliances and smooth over workplace tensions in a friendly environment?
Why is this so hard to understand, and what exactly is wrong with that?
Oh, sorry: "Introducing a woman into the mix creates a whole different atmosphere," where boys cannot cuss or make potty-mouth remarks about women, including female co-workers. Diddums.
Mysterious Benefactor, perhaps you will extend your generosity to this young lady so she no longer has to deal with creeps at work, and can simply abandon her job as so many blithely suggest here?
Then she can leave the boys -- and these are very clearly overgrown boys, not men -- to party in peace as you suggest. Surely the courage of your conviction is strong enough to put your money where your mouth is, Benefector?
This is a WORKPLACE situation. Getting along with that group of humans is essential to her continued ability to earn a living to pay her bills at that workplace. That's easier if she has some fun, relaxed times with those humans as well as whatever stressful BS they face together during work hours. After-work drinks are a normal thing in almost every industry I've worked (as an IT consultant: many). Excluding all women because the boys "want to talk about women" creates a hostile working environment. That's not my opinion, that's a legally-proven fact.
Sure, you can socialise with whomever you please, including single-gender groups. But after-work drinks are part of one's work, not one's social life. You'd tell her that if she was the one behaving badly in her question, right?
Work politics are a fact of life; we smooth our way through with booze and fun on the side. If women can't do that, our careers often stall. If we're meant to have full responsibility for our own success or failure, should we not also have full access to the opportunities one needs to succeed in life, including chances to bond with co-workers, make useful alliances and smooth over workplace tensions in a friendly environment?
Why is this so hard to understand, and what exactly is wrong with that?
Oh, sorry: "Introducing a woman into the mix creates a whole different atmosphere," where boys cannot cuss or make potty-mouth remarks about women, including female co-workers. Diddums.
I never suggested that she should abandon her job. Instead, I would encourage her(and anyone) to work hard and bring value to her company every day, no matter what her co-workers are doing after hours.
I disagree with your contention that "after-work drinks are part of one's work". Regardless of your purported experience, millions of successful people go straight home after work, paying no mind to where their co-workers are going. Your suggestion that not being invited/welcome at an after-work gathering represents a "hostile work environment" is nothing less than absurd.
What if a bunch of women in the office planned an outing? Would excluding the men be creating a "hostile work environment"? Of course not. Please cite the cases that show this to be a "legally-proven fact".
There is nothing keeping the OP from the opportunities "to bond with co-workers, make useful alliances and smooth over workplace tensions in a friendly environment". As I suggested, she is free to plan outings herself with those who wish to hang out with her.
Mysterious Benefactor, perhaps you will extend your generosity to this young lady so she no longer has to deal with creeps at work, and can simply abandon her job as so many blithely suggest here?
Then she can leave the boys -- and these are very clearly overgrown boys, not men -- to party in peace as you suggest. Surely the courage of your conviction is strong enough to put your money where your mouth is, Benefector?
This is a WORKPLACE situation. Getting along with that group of humans is essential to her continued ability to earn a living to pay her bills at that workplace. That's easier if she has some fun, relaxed times with those humans as well as whatever stressful BS they face together during work hours. After-work drinks are a normal thing in almost every industry I've worked (as an IT consultant: many). Excluding all women because the boys "want to talk about women" creates a hostile working environment. That's not my opinion, that's a legally-proven fact.
Sure, you can socialise with whomever you please, including single-gender groups. But after-work drinks are part of one's work, not one's social life. You'd tell her that if she was the one behaving badly in her question, right?
Work politics are a fact of life; we smooth our way through with booze and fun on the side. If women can't do that, our careers often stall. If we're meant to have full responsibility for our own success or failure, should we not also have full access to the opportunities one needs to succeed in life, including chances to bond with co-workers, make useful alliances and smooth over workplace tensions in a friendly environment?
Why is this so hard to understand, and what exactly is wrong with that?
Oh, sorry: "Introducing a woman into the mix creates a whole different atmosphere," where boys cannot cuss or make potty-mouth remarks about women, including female co-workers. Diddums.
Did I really need to explain to someone that their use of language was sexist?
YOU BETCHA!
SERIOUSLY??? The use of the terms "guys and gals" is NOT sexist! It's not like they said "*******, dames, sluts or broads" that to me would be sexists. Gal, um no!
I'm good friends with people that I work with, most of them men, with a few gals. Plus, some of the male workers had sisters or female cousins that would stop by, and it was fun having us all chill and do things. But long story short, a new manager had been transferred to the store. He was nice and cool to hang out, but shortly after he made himself at home with our gang and hangout spot, he introduced us to his friends. His friends all tried to make uncomfortable moves on me and the other girls in the pack, but we knew they were dogs and didn't want to have nothing to do with them in that way. A week later, we all show up, and my manager told me and another girl who happened to be the sister of one of the male workers, that it's going to be a guys only night. We were like, since when? He said just that night.
It is a free country. He cannot tell you and other women that you cannot come to a "hangout spot." I can not imagine showing up at a bar or a restaurant and being told I could not be there. Only the owner can say something like that. If you and the other ladies left, that is kind of your fault for letting somebody tell you where you can be in public. Stand up for yourself and say "NAH, we have been coming here for a long time and our happy hours have always been for everybody." Everybody in your group should agree to this including the men. The only place this dumb manager can say "boys only" like a little child is the men's room!
It is a free country. He cannot tell you and other women that you cannot come to a "hangout spot." I can not imagine showing up at a bar or a restaurant and being told I could not be there. Only the owner can say something like that. If you and the other ladies left, that is kind of your fault for letting somebody tell you where you can be in public. Stand up for yourself and say "NAH, we have been coming here for a long time and our happy hours have always been for everybody." Everybody in your group should agree to this including the men. The only place this dumb manager can say "boys only" like a little child is the men's room!
He can't stop us from going to other venues, but since he's a manager and makes lots of money, he'll just come and request a VIP room, that will keep us out.
But funny thing, last Saturday, one of my girlfriends started a new job as a bartender to this new strip joint called Double Dee's. One side is a country line dancing club and restaurant, the other side is a strip club. Another one of my girlfriend's and I went there to support my friend, and look who was there, the manager and our guy buddies. Our guy friends actually came by and hung out with u by the bar till the manager texted a few of them, and apparently he got tired of them chilling with us and talked all of them but one to leave.
Well, after my friend got off by about 12, we danced a bit on the club section, then decided to go to another strip club down the road where we were going to meet up with some more girlfriends who were getting off from their jobs, plus we knew some strippers that could use the company. We go there, and oh boy, the manager and the boys were there too. We just ignored him and stayed by one of the bars, getting free drinks and wings, and the one guy who came with us got a lap dance, for free. Then the rest of the guys came over. They all hung out with us, and we had a good time, until the manager tried to get a VIP room, but they were all booked. So then he tried to talk the guys into another strip club down the street, but they had had enough. It costs like 10 to 20 bucks to get into the strip club if you are a guy (the girls have always gotten in free :P) Then, we came across the assistant store manager there, with his wife, and they joined us in the festivities. We were all having a good time, except for the one manager. He left about 3, and as for us, after a game of pool, we all left about 5 AM and went to a diner to try and sober up.
But I stopped by Monday to get something at the store, and he was there. He came by, accused me of stalking and hogging up all the best girls, and how he liked it better when female patrons weren't allowed in the strip joints, it was the only place where men can escape from us, and then ran back into the stock room. I could care less, but I just might join my friend again this weekend. Like you said, it's a free country, and I can do whatever I want as long as I'm not hurting anyone or breaking the law.
He can't stop us from going to other venues, but since he's a manager and makes lots of money, he'll just come and request a VIP room, that will keep us out.
But funny thing, last Saturday, one of my girlfriends started a new job as a bartender to this new strip joint called Double Dee's. One side is a country line dancing club and restaurant, the other side is a strip club. Another one of my girlfriend's and I went there to support my friend, and look who was there, the manager and our guy buddies. Our guy friends actually came by and hung out with u by the bar till the manager texted a few of them, and apparently he got tired of them chilling with us and talked all of them but one to leave.
Well, after my friend got off by about 12, we danced a bit on the club section, then decided to go to another strip club down the road where we were going to meet up with some more girlfriends who were getting off from their jobs, plus we knew some strippers that could use the company. We go there, and oh boy, the manager and the boys were there too. We just ignored him and stayed by one of the bars, getting free drinks and wings, and the one guy who came with us got a lap dance, for free. Then the rest of the guys came over. They all hung out with us, and we had a good time, until the manager tried to get a VIP room, but they were all booked. So then he tried to talk the guys into another strip club down the street, but they had had enough. It costs like 10 to 20 bucks to get into the strip club if you are a guy (the girls have always gotten in free :P) Then, we came across the assistant store manager there, with his wife, and they joined us in the festivities. We were all having a good time, except for the one manager. He left about 3, and as for us, after a game of pool, we all left about 5 AM and went to a diner to try and sober up.
But I stopped by Monday to get something at the store, and he was there. He came by, accused me of stalking and hogging up all the best girls, and how he liked it better when female patrons weren't allowed in the strip joints, it was the only place where men can escape from us, and then ran back into the stock room. I could care less, but I just might join my friend again this weekend. Like you said, it's a free country, and I can do whatever I want as long as I'm not hurting anyone or breaking the law.
Does anyone else note the irony of a woman claiming sexual discrimination (sexism) because her male boss is trying to "limit her access," to strip clubs, a place where the sole purpose is objectification of women for men's pleasure? This story gets more and more bizarre with each post. smh
I'd be more disappointed in all those supposedly good long term friends that follow him around like a little dog.
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