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I know it's wrong but I kind of get what they were saying. If your saying it was a dinner and it started at 2pm they probably just simply thought that was the time people could start showing up,but since it was a dinner you probably wouldn't be eating till around 5. I think it's just the expectation that dinner is in the evening or that's the way it's usually done in their circle and that's just what the family has always done and old habits die hard. Best advice for hosting a big thanksgiving meal
Fix stuff the day before then reheat once most everyone arrives . The later folks can fix their plate and pop it in the microwave. May not be as fancy but much less stressful for host and guest.
Wow! I certainly disagree with your opinion.
Fix Thanksgiving dinner a day early and just heat up left overs on Thanksgiving Day to accommodate late comers ? ! ? Why not just tell them "Dinner is served at XX o'clock and serve dinner at time?
After all, I am assuming that the adults are able to get to work on time everyday, and do not expect their bosses to accommodate them. I also assume that when the movie or concert starts at 7 PM they don't waltz in an hour or two late and expect the venue to wait for them and not start the movie or concert before they arrive. And, I bet that they don't expect the airline to hold their flight for a couple of hours until they decide to arrive at the airport.
My relative has hosted most large holiday meals in our extended family for years. And, all 20 to 30 people, even the people that drive in from out of town or have little kids manage to arrive on time to share the meal.
After all, shouldn't a holiday celebration with your family be just as important as getting to work, or a movie or a concert on time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626
(snip)
One of our relatives loves to host holiday meals. He's a great cook and has a big house. Most holiday meals are about 20 people but a few have been closer to 30 people. He has also hosted meals for 40 to 50 people (but usually those are buffets not sit down meals)
He times every food to the minute with a huge spreadsheet. He says that we can arrive 45 minutes before the scheduled meal time if we want drinks and appetizers and people start to sit down at the table about five to ten minutes before "meal time". And every meal is served exactly on time.
Trust me NO ONE is ever late to his holiday meals (well, actually over the years a few people have been late by a couple of minutes but they are never late a second time as everyone is always sitting down and eating when they arrive & it is pretty embarrassing for them to be late).
Opinions vary on lateness typically based on if a person operates on a linear,flexible or cyclical time orientation. Sometimes it's just that particular person but different cultures orient time in their own way. Most of the Western world is linear oriented whereas India is cyclical.
There's quite a bit I learned about this just by Googling several years ago to try and understand my own failure to meet time expectations of others. I know being late is considered rude by the majority and its not that I'm late to be rude,get attention or avoidance. It's just that I process time a different way and unfortunately I seem to have been born,into a culture that it's considered a disadvantage.
I always use this example if your not sure which orientation you fall under.
If your meeting a friend for lunch at 11am and they show up at 11:01 are they late? I'm not asking if your upset but if one minute past the agreed upon time is considered late even if justified. If so your probably linear. When I tell someone to meet me at 11am and they show up at 11:15 it's not what I consider late. To me there's no big discernable difference between 10:55,11:00,11:15. It's close enough for me to be flexible that they are indeed on time. So what if by 12pm they still aren't there,we'll most people by that point will be considered late unless you are cyclical. Cyclical reaction would be well there's other stuff going on that probably affected the situation and you'll see them another time . Next time things might be different or they might not. Either way it's not worth worrying about or judging their character over something which can be justifiable due to circumstances beyond their.control.
That's what it all boils down to . Do you control ,work with or simply submit to time.
Ah, yes. The predictable cultural relativism wheeze, with a dash of smug self-satisfaction thrown in to add extra flavor. I'm not self-centered for being late all the time. No, I'm just culturally superior and can't be bothered by such pedestrian concerns.
Last time I checked, movies, plays, concerts, trains, planes, courts, business appointments, and a host of other activities start according to the clock. Restaurants depend on their patrons showing up on time for their tables. Most people who are actually considerate of others get this and show up accordingly. And, by and large, cultures that support the notion of punctuality as a fundamental courtesy tend to fare better economically.
I mean, my company scrapped its manufacturing in Brazil a long time ago for this reason, moving the manufacturing northward to Mexico. The reason why? People in Brazil just seemed incapable of showing up to the plant anywhere close to on time, while workers in Mexico could for the most part. If you've ever had to run a production line, you'd know how chaotic it is when most of your workforce trickles in 15 to 30 minutes late. And don't get me started on Carnival. Yet when we shut down the factory, you should have heard the howls of outrage.
I mean, Scandanavia is pretty laissez faire about a host of things, but show up fifteen minutes late for a business meeting or a casual dinner at a restaurant and they'll look at you as if you had just urinated in the corner. And there's a good reason for that. If you show up 15 minutes late for a meeting with four other people at your place of employment, then you've collectively wasted an hour of company time.
As far as that breezy "control, work with, or simply submit to time" statement is concerned, it's actually pretty easy. You simply give yourself enough time to arrive at your destination on tie. You simply plan your day accordingly. Because time is the stuff that life is made of. And when you aren't considerate of the time of others, you are really saying that their lives don't matter.
Last edited by MinivanDriver; 03-09-2017 at 07:15 AM..
I know it's wrong but I kind of get what they were saying. If your saying it was a dinner and it started at 2pm they probably just simply thought that was the time people could start showing up,but since it was a dinner you probably wouldn't be eating till around 5. I think it's just the expectation that dinner is in the evening or that's the way it's usually done in their circle and that's just what the family has always done and old habits die hard. Best advice for hosting a big thanksgiving meal
Fix stuff the day before then reheat once most everyone arrives . The later folks can fix their plate and pop it in the microwave. May not be as fancy but much less stressful for host and guest.
Well, given that preparing such a meal requires the split-second timing of a commando raid on U-boat pens, this is not very helpful advice. Let's break down everything that's wrong with your post here:
1) If someone says dinner is served at 2:00, that means you are expected by 2:00. On a day such as Thanksgiving, that gives you an incredible amount of time to get up, cook your part of the meal, shower, dress, and drive over to wherever the meal is being held.
I mean, between smartphones, alarm clocks, Google maps, and a host of other technological marvels, it is indeed possible to get one's act together and arrive at Thanksgiving on time without any undue stress. There is still plenty of time to wallow around in your pajamas, watch the Macy's Parade and play with the cat.
2) If you're having the expectation that the meal will be actually served at 5 pm, and that 2 pm time is a mere suggestion, you are actually trying to control the event and imposing your expectations on it. In many families, an early afternoon meal makes more sense because there are other family events elsewhere. In my brother's family, for example, we eat early afternoon because my nephew and his wife have to go visit her family. So just kind of saying, "Oh, well, I thought we were eating at five," you offer up a bit of unintentional arrogance. Even if the meal indeed began at five, what you're saying is that it's perfectly okay to pull up to the house with a screech of brakes moments before the meal begins. The entire point of a meal such as Thanksgiving is to spend time with family and friends, not just eat. If you simply focus on the meal itself, then you're basically reduced your host to the status of your local Chili's, where you come in, sit down, eat and leave.
3) The entire 'fix stuff the day before then reheat' nonsense is particularly weird, because it creates the supposition that a) the host is supposed to go through a great deal of additional trouble to accommodate one's lack of manners and b) the host is supposed to serve warmed-over food to all the other guests in order to accommodate one person's rudeness. In truth, this kind of solution is actually the best example of self-centeredness there is, for it places even more of a burden on the host by asking him or her to spread out the cooking and serving over a longer span of time. Somehow in this person's universe, the desire of the host to serve a warm and delicious meal in a timely manner becomes pathologized, while the person who skates in three hours late is someone emotionally healthy. Go figure.
Last edited by MinivanDriver; 03-09-2017 at 07:52 AM..
For a salon appointment: 10 minutes. (I used to wait longer, but I have learned that if a stylist is late, she will usually not do a very good job on me as she is rushing to "catch up".)
This reminded me of an incident a number of years ago (before smartphones were everywhere, I had a flip-phone at that time):
I agreed to meet with one of those bank investment officer folks (mostly out of morbid curiosity - he tried to sell me on investment stuff while setting up my new checking account but wouldn't actually give me any of the important details), had an appointment for the following Saturday morning.
When I arrived for my appointment, probably 5 minutes early, he was still with some other clients so the teller indicated for me to have a seat in the lobby. Fast-forward 20 minutes later, I was still sitting in the same seat and no one had said a word to me during that time.
So I stood up and walked out.
A few days later (Tue or Wed), I started getting voicemails (I chose not to answer the phone when he called), asking me to re-schedule, and the tone of the vm's was increasingly frustrated and angry, as though I was the one at fault. Never apologized for or acknowledged the fact that he was running so far behind. I suspect he had some sort of quota or sales/new customer requirement that I had ruined, but I figured there was no way I was even going to entertain the possibility of allowing someone to get involved in my finances (beyond the vanilla checking account) that couldn't even keep the first appointment on time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver
Last time I checked, movies, plays, concerts, trains, planes, courts, business appointments, and a host of other activities start according to the clock. Restaurants depend on their patrons showing up on time for their tables. Most people who are actually considerate of others get this and show up accordingly. And, by and large, cultures that support the notion of punctuality as a fundamental courtesy tend to fare better economically.
This is actually something I've noticed recently that annoys me... performances (concerts/comedy shows/dance performances) often don't start right on time these days, they are often 5-10 minutes behind as well. This lateness thing is spreading through the culture like an infection.
Location: Sodo Sopa at The Villas above Kenny' s House.
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I knew I would get flack for my posts. And I even said I was technically wrong but the whole time orientation thing is real and my source material which I linked does indeed say that punctual societies are more economically favorable. Some would say at an expense. But yes I agree but it still doesn't change the fact that not all the world works the same way and just as your adamant your correct, others are too. It's all relative.
Now for the Thanksgiving scenario . I based my answer on what the poster said was the reaction of her sister. I believe she said she.didn't think you were serious about that time. That led me to assume there was a reason she didn't. Possibly being that it's always been done later and she figured ,though incorrectly that this time would be the same. It just doesn't mean she is selfish and rude on purpose.
Heating up stuff means you prepare it to a certain point the day before and then finish it the day off. My family is all pretty casual and live various distances and with children to the point where I'm like this. It's a holiday and I want everyone to feel.relaxed and welcome to come whenever they can. We might not all be at the table at the exact time but we're just glad we can see each other and eat some awesome food. I'd rather someone show up 30 minutes late in a good mood then on time stressed out and irritable. If certain people thought they had to be there at an exact time they might even not show up. That's just not what's important to me when hosting guest. News flash the people who do have to use the microwave usually don't care. They are just glad there's food left and no one is making them feel unwelcome. Geesh!!!
I'm actually a great cook and I as well,can time everything to come out so it's ready together. I used to do it and be so proud that I had that capability. It's not easy. Only to be told that my guest or bf etc.. wasn't hungry yet or they would grab something in a few minutes. I'd be mad and resentful while they we were completely uneffected. Eventually I realized if I'm fixing something that makes people happy why is it effecting my happiness if they just don't want it right then. Now if they complain it isn't in optimum condition an hour later,that's different. But they don't and guess what. No stewing in anger or confusion to come on here and post. Life is easy, we work way to hard to prove that it's not.
I knew I would get flack for my posts. And I even said I was technically wrong but the whole time orientation thing is real and my source material which I linked does indeed say that punctual societies are more economically favorable. Some would say at an expense. But yes I agree but it still doesn't change the fact that not all the world works the same way and just as your adamant your correct, others are too. It's all relative.
Now for the Thanksgiving scenario . I based my answer on what the poster said was the reaction of her sister. I believe she said she.didn't think you were serious about that time. That led me to assume there was a reason she didn't. Possibly being that it's always been done later and she figured ,though incorrectly that this time would be the same. It just doesn't mean she is selfish and rude on purpose.
Heating up stuff means you prepare it to a certain point the day before and then finish it the day off. My family is all pretty casual and live various distances and with children to the point where I'm like this. It's a holiday and I want everyone to feel.relaxed and welcome to come whenever they can. We might not all be at the table at the exact time but we're just glad we can see each other and eat some awesome food. I'd rather someone show up 30 minutes late in a good mood then on time stressed out and irritable.
If certain people thought they had to be there at an exact time they might even not show up. That's just not what's important to me when hosting guest. News flash the people who do have to use the microwave usually don't care. They are just glad there's food left and no one is making them feel unwelcome. Geesh!!!
I'm actually a great cook and I as well,can time everything to come out so it's ready together. I used to do it and be so proud that I had that capability. It's not easy. Only to be told that my guest or bf etc.. wasn't hungry yet or they would grab something in a few minutes. I'd be mad and resentful while they we were completely uneffected. Eventually I realized if I'm fixing something that makes people happy why is it effecting my happiness if they just don't want it right then. Now if they complain it isn't in optimum condition an hour later,that's different. But they don't and guess what. No stewing in anger or confusion to come on here and post. Life is easy, we work way to hard to prove that it's not.
"If certain people thought they had to be there at an exact time they might even not show up."
I wonder if those "certain people" are unemployed because their former bosses had the audacity to tell them that work starts at a specific time?
I wonder if those "certain people" never go to sporting events or concerts or movies because they start the game/concert/movie at a specific time and not whenever the "certain people" decide to show up at the venue?
I wonder if those "certain people" always drive when they go on vacations because those "incredibly ridged" people who run the airports/airlines insist that the airplanes take off at specific, scheduled times?
I wonder if those "certain people" are the late comers that disrupt wedding ceremonies or funerals by arriving very late and causing a huge, loud commotion when they arrive?
I know it's wrong but I kind of get what they were saying. If your saying it was a dinner and it started at 2pm they probably just simply thought that was the time people could start showing up,but since it was a dinner you probably wouldn't be eating till around 5. I think it's just the expectation that dinner is in the evening or that's the way it's usually done in their circle and that's just what the family has always done and old habits die hard. Best advice for hosting a big thanksgiving meal
Fix stuff the day before then reheat once most everyone arrives . The later folks can fix their plate and pop it in the microwave. May not be as fancy but much less stressful for host and guest.
1. As a family our holiday meals have always traditionally been around 2, to allow for activities afterwards. This was not a new twist I threw out.
2. Some foods lend themselves to preparation ahead of time. Some don't.
3. Part of a Thanksgiving/holiday dinner is the family gathered in one place around the table, celebrating being a family. It's a Thanksgiving dinner, complete with flowers, fine china, sterling silver, Waterford crystal and stylized place settings, not an open house with paper plates. If it was an open house, it would have been billed as an open house.
4. I fail to see what is so "stressful" about showing up on time when invited to an event. People get to work on time and they get to the movies on time without having anxiety attacks. If you are going to be late, CALL. I could have easily modified things if they had just been thoughtful enough to pick up the phone and say, "Hey, we have a problem, can we push dinner to 3:30?" But me putting food on the bufet at 1:50, only to have it sit there . . . not cool. I wasn't stressed until people started treating the dinner with about as much respect as a drive-through.
5. My BIL was trying to be funny. I have a lively sense of humor, but it was dead and gone at that point.
I'd rather someone show up 30 minutes late in a good mood then on time stressed out and irritable. If certain people thought they had to be there at an exact time they might even not show up. That's just not what's important to me when hosting guest. News flash the people who do have to use the microwave usually don't care. They are just glad there's food left and no one is making them feel unwelcome.
Oh, hell no.
My MIL used to have to give dinner parties as part of my FIL's position - and she was very good at it. One couple was constantly late, and often failed to RSVP that they weren't coming, etc. My MIL had put up with it a few times, but finally got tired of it -- 8 other people managed to get there on time, enjoy cocktails, and enjoy a well-thought-out and beautifully presented dinner.
One evening, about 1 hr 15 minutes after the appointed time, when they had been seated for dinner for about 15 minutes, the doorbell rings. The maid answered, and there was the couple who had not RSVP'd. The maid came to get my MIL, who greeted them in surprise: "Oh! We didn't hear from you, I didn't realize you were coming!" The couple admitted that they must have gotten busy and forgotten. So my MIL let them into the dining room, where everyone was already seated. Rather than disrupt the table, she had a card table brought in and placed in the dining room, with some folding chairs, and the everyday china. The couple were hideously embarrassed, as everyone else was just staring at them standing there while my MIL and the maid was running around trying to figure out how to feed them. (Cornish game hen don't lend themselves to extras). My MIL and my FIL gave up their Cornish game hens to the newcomers.
The latecomers were so embarrassed that they were never, ever, ever late for another dinner. :-)
At the risk of being bitchy, I think it comes down simply to this:
Some people care about others, and so they are considerate and polite even if it means inconveniencing themselves somewhat, while other people just don't care that much.
(And, no, I am certainly not talking about people with very young children or "emergencies" or circumstances beyond one's control. However, I would say about 95% of the time, there is NO excuse for not RSVP'ing or for adults without kids to be more than a half-hour late, at most. And, personally, to anyone who says that they don't want to be around someone so rigid as to expect punctuality for a nice dinner -- well, newsflash, but I think most "rigid" people feel the same way about people who can't be bothered to show good manners.)
I knew I would get flack for my posts. And I even said I was technically wrong but the whole time orientation thing is real and my source material which I linked does indeed say that punctual societies are more economically favorable. Some would say at an expense. But yes I agree but it still doesn't change the fact that not all the world works the same way and just as your adamant your correct, others are too. It's all relative.
Now for the Thanksgiving scenario . I based my answer on what the poster said was the reaction of her sister. I believe she said she.didn't think you were serious about that time. That led me to assume there was a reason she didn't. Possibly being that it's always been done later and she figured ,though incorrectly that this time would be the same. It just doesn't mean she is selfish and rude on purpose.
Heating up stuff means you prepare it to a certain point the day before and then finish it the day off. My family is all pretty casual and live various distances and with children to the point where I'm like this. It's a holiday and I want everyone to feel.relaxed and welcome to come whenever they can. We might not all be at the table at the exact time but we're just glad we can see each other and eat some awesome food. I'd rather someone show up 30 minutes late in a good mood then on time stressed out and irritable. If certain people thought they had to be there at an exact time they might even not show up. That's just not what's important to me when hosting guest. News flash the people who do have to use the microwave usually don't care. They are just glad there's food left and no one is making them feel unwelcome. Geesh!!!
I'm actually a great cook and I as well,can time everything to come out so it's ready together. I used to do it and be so proud that I had that capability. It's not easy. Only to be told that my guest or bf etc.. wasn't hungry yet or they would grab something in a few minutes. I'd be mad and resentful while they we were completely uneffected. Eventually I realized if I'm fixing something that makes people happy why is it effecting my happiness if they just don't want it right then. Now if they complain it isn't in optimum condition an hour later,that's different. But they don't and guess what. No stewing in anger or confusion to come on here and post. Life is easy, we work way to hard to prove that it's not.
You got flack because it is deserved. Everything else is just rationalization.
And that's kind of the problem. We've become so open-minded that our brains are falling out. We will now excuse just about any behavior, when in truth punctuality for a dinner party should not be open to discussion. As far as the 'other cultures' thing goes, so what? Last time I checked, the laws of physics applied worldwide. A turkey that sits around an hour longer because Cousin Jimmy can't get it together to arrive on time is not as enjoyable as a turkey that is fresh out of the oven.
If your guest arrives for your dinner party and says they're not hungry, that's on them, not you. And if someone shows up on time stressed and irritable, it again speaks to their bad manners--in additional to lacking the intellectual capacity to arrive somewhere on time. If someone goes through the trouble of cleaning and cooking in preparation for guests, it's the guest's obligation to show up on time with a smile on their cotton-picking face.
Last edited by MinivanDriver; 03-09-2017 at 01:35 PM..
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