Is my father crazy or is it just me? (sociopath, wives, relatives)

[LiaLia]

Originally Posted by DCT2019

And yes my dad is a big homophobe. So is my brother. And yes I am gay! I'm still in the closet. And yes my father, brother, and many other men in my family are the reasons why. My father has made comments to me saying, "If you ever came out as gay, you won't be put in prison because it's not a crime, but I WILL PUT YOU IN PRISON!!!" My dad and my brother don't hesistate to use the word fa**ot. And my father says "I will never accept having a gay son." Me being gay and having to hear this is really hard. I just keep my mouth shut whenever they have these conversations. I will definitely not be coming out anytime soon, that will probably be a long time from now where I am living on my own. I feel like the only people who would accept me are my mother and sisters.

My dad probably does suspect that I'm gay, but just doesn't want to believe it. That could partly explain his behavior. He has asked me in the past, and I denied it. He will then say, "You better not be." If I came out, it would not be pretty. I know it would make him and my brother very angry and upset. When I was younger, about 3 or 4, I used to play with my sister's barbie dolls. Whenever my father would catch me playing with them, he would take them from me and hide them. I would start crying. Crying to the point where I would start screaming. I used to cry a lot when I was a little boy. He didn't like that either.

Even today. I do have my feminie ways, but I'm not overly feminine. Like if you were to look at me and see my personality, you wouldn't automatically think I'm gay. I'm not into sports, I'm not really into manly things, etc. My father probably doesn't like that, which could explain his behavior towards me.

After re-reading this, I'd like to ask you Are there are times when you don't feel safe at home?

[JrzDefector]

Originally Posted by Catgirl64

A.) Did you even read this thread?

B.) What is wrong with being a nurse? I bet you have been helped by a few of them in your life.

I know - that pulled me up short, bigtime! Nurses make good money and those that seek additional accreditation are basically all but doctors. It's a career path that is filled with opportunity and will be in demand as the baby boomers age.

[DCT2019]

Originally Posted by LiaLia

After re-reading this, I'd like to ask you Are there are times when you don't feel safe at home?

No. Honestly, I do feel safe at home despite my father's and brother's homophobia. It hurts to have to listen to them, but I'm not out. I'm still in the closet for this reason. Since I'm not out, I do feel safe. If I came out, like I said, it would be very ugly.

[maus]

Your choice for your career is your choice and definitely not your father's. I think your career choice is a wise one for your own future. Nursing can pay well and you can find work most anywhere in the country.

Your dad's views sound like it would come from someone somewhat older. At least attitudes like his are becoming outdated as time marches on. Once living on your own, you definitely feel more independent and your dad's influence and opinions about you will wain as you age. Your future looks bright from my perspective. Just try to minimize your father's opinions best you can and work on your personal goals.

[Kibbiekat]

Originally Posted by TwinbrookNine

Neither one of you is crazy. But in our house you'd be termed "a little touchy."


Your dad's a hoot! He's just playing around with you. He knows full well what you're exposed to at college, and just wants to round you out a bit. At least he isn't forcing you to watch boring f'ball games all the time. (guys do that to make sure sonny doesn't grow up, you know, "that way.")


So, I always wondered, what do guys do at "Capping?"


[and P.S....yes, guys DO make good nurses and there are zillions of them; Tell him Biff said so.]

No, he's not, and it's not funny.

[Catgirl64]

Originally Posted by TwinbrookNine

Neither one of you is crazy. But in our house you'd be termed "a little touchy."


Your dad's a hoot! He's just playing around with you. He knows full well what you're exposed to at college, and just wants to round you out a bit. At least he isn't forcing you to watch boring f'ball games all the time. (guys do that to make sure sonny doesn't grow up, you know, "that way.")


So, I always wondered, what do guys do at "Capping?"


[and P.S....yes, guys DO make good nurses and there are zillions of them; Tell him Biff said so.]

I have a feeling I am not alone in being glad I don't live in your house.

[PAhippo]

while there are a lot of male nurses, it's still a predominantly female field.

get used to that attitude from any age, either gender.


specifically to your father, you know his attitude. You're not going to change it. Just keep being you.

[DaveinMtAiry]

First off I want to second the comment that you write beautifully and I find this to be one of the better threads I have read here despite the topic. You came here for advice and I hope what you are receiving is helpful. But I do find it strange that you keep referring to feminine traits, you do realize that being gay does not necessarily mean acting feminine right?

At first I was going to argue against the "he'll never change" belief. My brother in law was a homophobe, then his daughter came out and we all had a good laugh. But he adjusted and accepted. But that was years ago and as everyone knows things have changed dramatically regarding gay acceptance. If dad has not changed by now I have my doubts he ever will. I'm not sure it's worth it to come out, at least not any time soon. Now you may pull mom aside and with her promise of confidentiality reveal yourself to her. But not dad, at least not now. I also agree with the post that your mother sounds like an angel and your dad is very lucky to have her.

[CatzPaw]

OP, I'm a bit disturbed about people declaring your dad a jerk and an a-hole and I'll bet you are, too. It's often one thing for us to think or say it ourselves, but to hear it from others when they don't know the whole story may satisfy in the moment but is often troubling to us in the long run.

I'd like you to consider a few things that I think are pretty important. Your posts are extremely well-written and considerate. They reflect well on you as a person. You didn't come to this by accident: Regardless of your dad's attitudes about certain things, it's obvious he has valued you getting the education that he didn't. He and your mother have stayed together which is not easy – again, something he didn't have with no father at all in his life. He has valued a stable home for his children. He and your mother got you out of the city and presumably a better environment and schools.

This is not intended as a defense of your father's attitudes towards women, race, or gays. But I think it can be helpful to have a understanding of where he came from – which is why I asked those questions in Post #10.

By my math, your dad was born in 1966 in a "rough neighborhood" of Detroit and the midst of the fight for racial equality. It was a tumultuous time in Detroit and the rest of the country. In 1967, there were the "riots." Desegregation of the metro schools and busing were constantly in the news until the mid-70s. White flight to the suburbs accelerated. In short, it was a tough time overall. Even fifty years later, despite downtown doing a little better, life in the "neighborhoods" and schools is rough for many Detroiters.

Here's my disclaimer: I was born in Detroit and after a couple of years, grew up in the suburbs. I am white. In 1966, when your dad was born, I was a young teenager. I can't ever know what it was like to be a black person in that time or through your eyes now, but I observed a great deal and took great interest in the civil rights movement. I was fortunate to get a "liberal" education, even in junior high and high school, which opened my eyes to the experiences of people beyond those who looked just like me or lived next door. I tended to hang with the "hippie" kids and for all our failings, we had starry-eyed hopes of real equality "some day." My parents, whom I will not insult you by saying they were not racist, did not use pejorative terms for "others" in our household. I had to go outside my own house to hear that ugliness in person. I am thankful for that and the education I received that made me curious about the world down the street and around the world and that exposed me to differences in a healthy way.

Here is what I would like you to think about: Your dad did not grow up in the era of the internet. His world was much more insular than yours. He was influenced by what was around him most closely – his neighbors, his schoolmates. If others he knew dropped out of school, it was more likely that he would do so. Today, it seems that we have a "program" for everything, such as to retain students to complete school – but that wasn't so prevalent then. You said one of your dad's early jobs was at a yacht club. That was probably on Belle Isle or in Grosse Pointe. It's unlikely there were any black members. And that he worked as a carpet installer. There is no doubt that he heard and saw things and endured some bad treatment that solidified some of his prejudices. In short, he learned and earned his attitude from the world he inhabited.

Imagine a world before the internet: You got half an hour of national and world news at dinner time if you watched it. The rest of your news came from newspapers – if you were a reader – or from someone you knew passing on information like an old fashioned game of telephone. Dedicated readers went to the library. You did not even go down to the local bookstore and sit and read magazines, etc., without purchase. Today, if we are curious enough (and a lot of people still aren't), the whole world is available for us to explore from our chair. News runs on cable or streaming on our computers 24 hours a day. It truly is a different world. We can connect with people and groups that we would have been hard put to seek out in earlier days.

In 1973, there was the oil embargo and gas shortage. By the time your dad was 10, the whole area was in an economic straitjacket. Unemployment was rampant, even for those with college degrees. Like thousands of others in the area, I was able to leave for Texas. My husband-to-be had gotten out of school right into that dumper of an economy. For those who could leave and try their hand elsewhere, there was no internet to job search or fill out applications: If you didn't just load up the Chevy and go, you waited for the previous day's newspapers from Houston or Dallas or other areas that were doing all right economically to be flown in and they sold out quickly at the newsstands and drugstores. The city emptied out even more. And more and more women were in the workforce. Women's rights and gay rights were more in the news than they'd ever been previously.

I could go on. But I guess that the point that I want to hammer home is that we sometimes tend to think that whatever the prevailing attitude is at the time is the way it's always been. Nothing changes overnight. Some embrace the "new way," others are slower to adapt and some never do. Sometimes we go backwards – two steps forward, one step back.

Your dad is a product of his surroundings. It sounds like he and your brother get along better because as you say, your brother is more like your dad. It's probably your brother's way of gaining acceptance from your dad which is also what you want – you just have a different outlook and way. (Also wanted to say that though your father's brothers grew up in the same household and area with him, as times change, so can siblings – especially younger ones. They had different friends or different teachers who may have influenced them. Even in the span of a few years, the world can be "different.")

I and a couple of others have mentioned Archie Bunker to you. If you are not familiar with that show, which ran from 1971-1973, look for it – "All in the Family" – on youtube. Archie, who bemoaned blacks moving into "his" neighborhood, eventually had grudging respect for his African-American neighbor George Jefferson, who Wikipedia describes as "Like his neighbor Archie Bunker, George Jefferson was frequently opinionated, rude, bigoted, prone to scheming and not particularly intelligent in a scholastic sense, but still a loving, hard-working father and husband." This comedy was one of the first to combine social commentary in a meaningful way.

In other words, both characters had many undesirable characteristics but they also had redeeming qualities.

Your dad is a combination of good and bad. We all are.

You are not going to be able to change your dad. I do think he loves and respects you more than he makes apparent but he's got to keep up his tough guy persona. It's what he knows and what saved him along the way. Under the surface, your dad is disappointed in himself – both in opportunities he never had and those he blew off – and that makes him think and make disparaging comments about women and gays. This post is kind of all over the place and a bit of a hodge-podge, but my point is that it has deep roots in his personal history.

Keep working toward your degree and take pride in yourself and your accomplishments. Nursing will open many doors to you and give you an economic freedom where you will never be trapped for a quarter-century in a job you don't like and feel you can't quit. Take advantage of your wider knowledge of the world and keep moving forward. I would be proud to claim you as my son. I hope some day your dad can admit it out loud.

[DaveinMtAiry]

You sure took a lot of time writing a post to excuse away the behavior of a man in 2018 who still holds 1957 beliefs. And it's obvious that these beliefs are very very hurtful to his son.