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It is exactly racism. It is behavior based upon a person's race.
Now racist acts aren't always born of evil intent. Sometimes they are born of ignorance.
The OP's friends have obviously not hung out much with black people, or they would be past saying those sorts of things. They are seeing him as "the black guy", not as MarshaBrady's boyfriend.
Yes, they should know better, but they don't. They are easing their discomfort at their own racism with trying very hard to show that they aren't racist. I think they mean well but don't understand how ridiculous they really sound.
I remember hearing someone define racism as discrimination but applied. I guess they're 'applying' that discrimination here, but can be not as 'bad' as a serious, malicious, really disadvantageousing action (like accepting as a tenant or employment offer based on race alone).
And for someone like me, growing up with black people among other minorities, we'll joke about it in that taste since it's you take, you give, and the era of the 90s and before. I mean Hollywood, the bastion of Liberty came out with movies called "White Men Can't Jump".
Fresh Prince had Carlton dance like a 'White' preppy guy.
But, it would be limited to people we're close with/around at that time. Actually one guy of the group is good at getting away with the quip but we wouldn't dwell on it. Maybe a quip or two, and that's it.
The feeling that- and I am stealing from someone else because it was so accurate - they identify him FIRST as black (and everything that means to them- dancing, sports, whatever), and as a male person second.
It would be the same type of thought as if someone said to you or I as women - "It looks like the baby needs changing, better go do it" when the baby's dad is right there; or a presumption about cooking dinner, etc etc.
It is called "to pre-judge" in the noun form, prejudice
Maybe it's just me, but I kindof LIKE having familiar friendly stereotypes, and these are in fact friendly stereotypes and so are yours about diapers and cooking. It is NOT oppressive or sexist, IMHO, to assume mothers take care of children or cook most meals. And guess what? I don't do either one! I didn't have kids and I don't enjoy cooking. My hubby does. But we use these stereotypes to give the world a LITTLE tiny bit of predictability... It makes the world navigable and you're not going to eliminate the ones that are often TRUE just by declaring the concept politically incorrect.
It's a good thing to have societal and sub-societal norms and expectations! And it's a good thing even IF you are one who bucks those traditions, because that's ALSO part of what makes life and people interesting.
So have you decided not to hang out with them anymore? Have you and your BF talked about it since?
There was a post yesterday or day before where I explained what he said when we talked about it. I haven't talked with him since then. He works nights and I work days, so days go by without us seeing each other or even speaking - someone is always asleep!
One thing I did not add earlier is that he knows of all my complaints over the last several years. When I first met him was during the phase where no one lived in the same town with me, and I was hanging out with some of those "other friends" a lot more. Around the time we got married is when I kind of picked back up with the old gang.
It's just a very strange dynamic. People can only judge by the like 4 sentences I write on whichever post they step into, but if I were to compile even just the posts within CD, it would become more clear, and certainly if I were to have an entire blog about it.
I think that my husband is correct in what he said, as others have also said here. I am also correct in what I have said, though.
All I can do is keep trying to hang with other people, and hope (pray) for the best. I reached out to a friend to hang this weekend while the others are having their weekend that I backed out of, but this friend just adopted a baby, so it's tough for her to hang out a lot, but I am going to go by her house and see how much the baby has grown. Yay me!
The feeling that- and I am stealing from someone else because it was so accurate - they identify him FIRST as black (and everything that means to them- dancing, sports, whatever), and as a male person second.
It would be the same type of thought as if someone said to you or I as women - "It looks like the baby needs changing, better go do it" when the baby's dad is right there; or a presumption about cooking dinner, etc etc.
It is called "to pre-judge" in the noun form, prejudice
So--would it be any better to identify him first as a male and second as black? That would be less racist/racial stereotyping, but more sexist/gender-focused.
And--let's keep it real. If I were the only white female in a group of black men and women, I bet I would be identified first as white and then as a female. Or more likely, first as white, second as old, and third as female. And it may not be as derogatory as the n-word with all its history, but surely it's not exactly conducive to recognizing the humanity and individuality of people for blacks to call white women "Becky" as and imply they are clueless about their prejudice and privilege.
I also don't understand why so many black people refer to their race all the time---like I said earlier, saying "kiss my black a**"---why does the black part need to be mentioned?
We all need to work on treating each other well, treating everyone as unique and worthwhile individuals. I just wish I knew how to help make it happen.
Other than that, OP, your friends don't sound great. laughing at Chinese people and acting like they are all carriers of the virus is unacceptable for sure.
So--would it be any better to identify him first as a male and second as black? That would be less racist/racial stereotyping, but more sexist/gender-focused.
And--let's keep it real. If I were the only white female in a group of black men and women, I bet I would be identified first as white and then as a female. Or more likely, first as white, second as old, and third as female. And it may not be as derogatory as the n-word with all its history, but surely it's not exactly conducive to recognizing the humanity and individuality of people for blacks to call white women "Becky" as and imply they are clueless about their prejudice and privilege.
I also don't understand why so many black people refer to their race all the time---like I said earlier, saying "kiss my black a**"---why does the black part need to be mentioned?
We all need to work on treating each other well, treating everyone as unique and worthwhile individuals. I just wish I knew how to help make it happen.
Other than that, OP, your friends don't sound great. laughing at Chinese people and acting like they are all carriers of the virus is unacceptable for sure.
First, "old"- LOL- I bet I be would too, but I just never think of that, so that made me chuckle
Second, identifying race in my opinion, nothing wrong with that. Example: hubby works with 4 dudes named Steve- FOUR! - in a group that only has like 8 people in it to begin with. They lovingly and jokingly say "White Steve, Black Steve, Hispanic Steve, and Asian Steve". They could use the last initial, but there is no comedy in that.
But identifying particular qualities equated to that race/sex/age is the problem. So if I identify you as old, and so I presume that you are unwilling or unable to play a game of pick up basketball with me and my college friends, NOW it is ageism
If, in the above, my husband accused Asian Steve of eating bats, or bringing the virus to the US, NOW it is racism
If, in the above, they ask Black Steve how many baby-mommas he has, or how many times he has been incarcerated, NOW it's an issue
So asking my black hubby to dance at a party full of mostly white people, while innocent and joking, it comes from the same ingrained place: white = this, black = this, etc.
FWIW: Never once have I been around his family (there are a couple of other white people, but mostly black), and they have said "Hey white girl, you must have a good credit score and have no idea when MLK day is".
As far as black people referring to their race, and/or calling themselves the N word, yes, I do understand that. WAY too long for this, but you can find some very good explanations of black plight and reactions to it over history. In a nutshell, "if they are going to think I am "this" no matter what I do, I might as well be "this" "
I think you continue to overthink this and are looking for things to get woke over that frankly don't pertain to you. You aren't black yet you want to be hurt as if you were black. Almost like a sort of cultural appropriation.
Do you have some sort of white guilt or have some need to be perpetually offended over trivial things? Your husband seems to handle things better than you do.
If you want to end your friendships, do so. Stop thinking of yourself as the shining example of all that is good in the world and the last bastion of morality. It almost appears that you use the fact that your husband is black as a testimony to your wokeness.
I hope you find what you are looking for in terms of friendship. You set the bar pretty high in terms of needing them to be politically similar, similarly educated, and similarly woke.
Last edited by NSHL10; 01-31-2020 at 10:42 AM..
Reason: Added
I think you continue to overthink this and are looking for things to get woke over that frankly don't pertain to you. You aren't black yet you want to be hurt as if you were black. Almost like a sort of cultural appropriation.
Do you have some sort of white guilt or have some need to be perpetually offended over trivial things? Your husband seems to handle things better than you do.
If you want to end your friendships, do so. Stop thinking of yourself as the shining example of all that is good in the world and the last bastion of morality. It almost appears that you use the fact that your husband is black as a testimony to your wokeness.
I hope you find what you are looking for in terms of friendship. You set the bar pretty high in terms of needing them to be politically similar, similarly educated, and similarly woke.
Exactly. When I was dating someone who was black a hundred years ago, we were spit on, shoved, and I almost had my ass handed to me more than once. Flat out racism.
What the OP is describing is meant to be a joke. Just a joke. My black buddies joke about how the rest of us CAN'T dance all the time. Or as I said in an earlier post, will reference my drunk Irish relatives (not untrue, by the way). Or we'll rib our Indian friends about being underachievers.
People need to stay focused on the seriously rotten things going on and lighten up where everything else is concerned.
And for God's sake - take a sociology class and learn the difference between racism and stereotyping.
I think you continue to overthink this and are looking for things to get woke over that frankly don't pertain to you. You aren't black yet you want to be hurt as if you were black. Almost like a sort of cultural appropriation.
Do you have some sort of white guilt or have some need to be perpetually offended over trivial things? Your husband seems to handle things better than you do.
If you want to end your friendships, do so. Stop thinking of yourself as the shining example of all that is good in the world and the last bastion of morality. It almost appears that you use the fact that your husband is black as a testimony to your wokeness.
I hope you find what you are looking for in terms of friendship. You set the bar pretty high in terms of needing them to be politically similar, similarly educated, and similarly woke.
That's just it....I think of myself as merely a grain of sand on a beach of others just like me. When someone doesn't just KNOW how to be nice to someone, or just KNOW they are stereotyping, or just KNOW that sometimes others are going through things that you don't even know of, I am shocked. So yes, then I do have to over think it for a bit, to make sure it's not "just me" being silly.
If I thought I was the "bastion of morality" (which I love and will steal, BTW), then when certain things happen, instead of being all "WTF?!?!" I would be all "aaawww, poor souls, if only they could be more like me"
So your summation of my character does not hold water.
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