U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-25-2015, 07:35 PM
 
Location: My House
34,922 posts, read 35,581,190 times
Reputation: 26479

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinadawg2 View Post
Umm, the government of the United States (represented by Old Glory) spent nearly 100 years purposefully giving people the right to continue slavery. Then spent another 50 years nearly finishing a genocidal campaign against native americans.

As I've said before, this situation isn't clear cut, and there is no good guy, and there is no bad guy. And a flag isn't even remotely the issue.
And it was the Union, under that same flag, that went to war to END slavery.

What happened in the South? SC threw up a Confederate battle flag as a protest against desegregation.
__________________
When in doubt, check it out: FAQ
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-25-2015, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Southport
4,639 posts, read 6,207,825 times
Reputation: 3477
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin View Post
And it was the Union, under that same flag, that went to war to END slavery.

What happened in the South? SC threw up a Confederate battle flag as a protest against desegregation.
And what happened in Boston? Riots against school desegregation. No one's hands are clean.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2015, 07:46 PM
 
2,823 posts, read 4,351,361 times
Reputation: 1778
Are they really talking about taking down Confederate monuments? I'm surprised Silent Sam is still standing in Chapel Hill. However, the monuments aren't as "offensive" or noticeable as opposed to Confederate flags arrogantly flying so the whole world can see.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2015, 07:47 PM
 
37,494 posts, read 40,207,582 times
Reputation: 26550
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin View Post
And it was the Union, under that same flag, that went to war to END slavery.

What happened in the South? SC threw up a Confederate battle flag as a protest against desegregation.
The Union/North only wanted to end slavery once it became an economic liability. Up until that point, it was quite happy to profit from slave labor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2015, 09:44 PM
 
Location: My House
34,922 posts, read 35,581,190 times
Reputation: 26479
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinadawg2 View Post
And what happened in Boston? Riots against school desegregation. No one's hands are clean.
And if they were flying a flag in Boston that was specifically designed to thumb their noses at desegregation, I'd tell them to take it down, too.
__________________
When in doubt, check it out: FAQ
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2015, 09:48 PM
 
Location: My House
34,922 posts, read 35,581,190 times
Reputation: 26479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
The Union/North only wanted to end slavery once it became an economic liability. Up until that point, it was quite happy to profit from slave labor.
And that makes slavery okay?

Look, I am well aware that the Union states were former slaveholding states. It still doesn't make it okay for SC to have put a flag up on the capitol grounds in 1962 as a form of silent protest and then keep it up there until 2015 and not even remove it when a white supremacist shot a bunch of black people in church.

Come on. If you knew someone killed someone in Kansas, would you then use "but, they killed a man in Kansas" as your defense if you were accused of doing the same thing in NC, even if you knew it was wrong?

I think we should all be sorry that slavery ever existed in the US, period. The South (and I'm a native, mind you) just seems particularly confused about how to apologize and make peace with it. It's almost like many of our natives are concerned that they will come across as "traitors to the Old South" if they give up these symbols of oppression. It's rather silly. Love all the beautiful things about the South. Give up all that negative imagery and move forward.
__________________
When in doubt, check it out: FAQ
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2015, 12:03 AM
 
1,965 posts, read 3,229,342 times
Reputation: 1912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
The Union/North only wanted to end slavery once it became an economic liability. Up until that point, it was quite happy to profit from slave labor.
Agreed. Insurance companies and banks primarily in the North profited handsomely by underwriting slave trading expeditions. The nullification issue in the 1830's which was thwarted by Andrew Jackson (who supported the Union) was clearly about tariffs, not slavery. It wasn't until the fledgling industrialists of the North wanted to squeeze out foreign competition with tariffs that slavery became one of the justifications of war. (union preservation being the primary)

Just a few short years later, that same Union (even the same individuals like Sherman) engaged in genocide against the native Americans when it suited their economic interests. Seems inconsistent with their humanitarian bent of just a few years prior...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2015, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,287 posts, read 28,222,266 times
Reputation: 11650
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJayCB View Post
Are they really talking about taking down Confederate monuments? I'm surprised Silent Sam is still standing in Chapel Hill. However, the monuments aren't as "offensive" or noticeable as opposed to Confederate flags arrogantly flying so the whole world can see.
Yes, the Mayor of New Orleans, twit that he is, wants to remove General Lee's statue from Lee Circle.

Gen Lee was a key player in the US winning the Mexican/American War.
Gen Lee was a key player in starting the healing process after the civil war
West Point still teaches Gen Lee's battle plans.

He did not want the war, but once SC fired that first shot, he stayed on the side of the Confederacy because he didn't want to take up arms against his fellow Virginians.

So now because of his stint in the confederacy we should forget some of the good he did and take down his statue.

People have gone totally bat ***** crazy over this.
It's nuts, stop already people
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2015, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Southport
4,639 posts, read 6,207,825 times
Reputation: 3477
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJayCB View Post
Are they really talking about taking down Confederate monuments? I'm surprised Silent Sam is still standing in Chapel Hill. However, the monuments aren't as "offensive" or noticeable as opposed to Confederate flags arrogantly flying so the whole world can see.
Yep:

Charlotte reviews Confederate memorials

Let the sanitizing of history begin. We certainly can't allows anyone's precious feelings to be hurt. The horror!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2015, 06:46 AM
 
37,494 posts, read 40,207,582 times
Reputation: 26550
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin View Post
And that makes slavery okay?

Look, I am well aware that the Union states were former slaveholding states. It still doesn't make it okay for SC to have put a flag up on the capitol grounds in 1962 as a form of silent protest and then keep it up there until 2015 and not even remove it when a white supremacist shot a bunch of black people in church.

Come on. If you knew someone killed someone in Kansas, would you then use "but, they killed a man in Kansas" as your defense if you were accused of doing the same thing in NC, even if you knew it was wrong?

I think we should all be sorry that slavery ever existed in the US, period. The South (and I'm a native, mind you) just seems particularly confused about how to apologize and make peace with it. It's almost like many of our natives are concerned that they will come across as "traitors to the Old South" if they give up these symbols of oppression. It's rather silly. Love all the beautiful things about the South. Give up all that negative imagery and move forward.
Of course that doesn't make slavery "okay" and as a native South Carolinian and descendant of African slaves, I'm not in favor of keeping the Confederate battle flag on state grounds whatsoever. But the implications that the North was somehow morally superior to the South in seeking to abolish slavery is somewhat amusing to me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2023, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top