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Here's the real thing. Flags are merely symbols. Its whats in peoples minds and hearts that matters. Taking down a flag creates no real change. The flag is just an easy target to avoid doing anything constructive.
You are correct, but having racists think that the state sanctions their beliefs is bad.
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Thats nonsensical. If one group did the "right thing", then by implication, the opposing group did the "wrong thing". Thus, you're assigning a morally superior position to one group.
I see it as one group trying to do right to undo the wrong and another stubbornly clinging to the wrong.
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Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin
I see it as one group trying to do right to undo the wrong and another stubbornly clinging to the wrong.
Keep in mind that many soldiers in the Union armies were fighting for the Union, not about slavery. There was a near rebellion in the Union armies when Lincoln released the Emancipation Proclamation. Many Confederate soldiers were drafted at the long end of a rifle. That war was not about right vs wrong in the sense that we know it.
I highly recommend googling for accounts & letters. There are a lot online. Many have been removed over the years because of the language which is now considered to be highly offensive.
There are accounts of a soldier in one of the western theater armies who had no opinion about slavery until he ran into a man, who the soldier thought was a free white man, who was a slave.
I can think of reasons why blacks can find the stars & bars offensive. I can think of reasons why some whites can think of it as heritage. However, because of 20th century hate groups adoption of that flag, it shouldn't be on state flags, state grounds other than Civil War battlefields, or license plates. However, removing it isn't going to fix people's minds.
Keep in mind that many soldiers in the Union armies were fighting for the Union, not about slavery.
And to follow up on that a bit...here's a quote from Lincoln's first inaugural address:
"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."
It was only well into the war, when public sentiment in support began to erode, that Lincoln attempted make it about ending slavery, via the Emancipation Proclamation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
I can think of reasons why blacks can find the stars & bars offensive. I can think of reasons why some whites can think of it as heritage. However, because of 20th century hate groups adoption of that flag, it shouldn't be on state flags, state grounds other than Civil War battlefields, or license plates. However, removing it isn't going to fix people's minds.
[QUOTE=southbound_295;40174705] Many Confederate soldiers were drafted at the long end of a rifle. That war was not about right vs wrong in the sense that we know it.QUOTE]
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate
[QUOTE=southbound_295;40174705] Many Confederate soldiers were drafted at the long end of a rifle. That war was not about right vs wrong in the sense that we know it.QUOTE]
I was being quite literal when I said drafted at the long end of a rifle. Whoever was in charge of rounding up "recruits" might show up on your farm with one or more armed "assistants" who were willing to blow your brains out if you refused the invitation. Therefore there were no draft riots in the Confederacy, but Richmond did have bread riots. You also had men in western NC, East TN, & northern Alabama hiding out in caves to avoid the "draft" & stay near their families. Some made their way north & enlisted in northern armies or came out of the caves & joined if a northern army got near enough.
Generally, the more rugged and hardscrabble the country, thus less slaves, the more white southerners favored the Union. There were about 25,000 East Tennessee white men in the United States Army during the Southern Rebellion. Every rebelling state except South Carolina provided white soldiers for the United States Army and of course there were well over 100,000 southern men in the United States Colored Troops. Many apologists for the rebellion forget that black people were southerners too.
Some historians think the rugged country along the east bank of the Mississippi south of the Delta was heavily Unionist. When Grant crossed the river to operate against Vicksburg the locals gave the federal troops accurate information on the confusing local road network, whereas rebel troops trying to find Grant's columns were often given inaccurate information.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29
Generally, the more rugged and hardscrabble the country, thus less slaves, the more white southerners favored the Union. There were about 25,000 East Tennessee white men in the United States Army during the Southern Rebellion. Every rebelling state except South Carolina provided white soldiers for the United States Army and of course there were well over 100,000 southern men in the United States Colored Troops. Many apologists for the rebellion forget that black people were southerners too.
Some historians think the rugged country along the east bank of the Mississippi south of the Delta was heavily Unionist. When Grant crossed the river to operate against Vicksburg the locals gave the federal troops accurate information on the confusing local road network, whereas rebel troops trying to find Grant's columns were often given inaccurate information.
You just can't make many assumptions about that war. Just about everything was pretty much clear as mud.
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