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Honestly, Scranton to NYC via train (whenever service is restored) is going to be one LONG LONG train ride. From what I recall the revamped Lacakwanna cutoff will attach to the NJ Transit Morristown/Gladstone Line somewhere around Hacketstown. The way I figure it (from my experience with NJ transit) this is going to be about a 2 hour rail ride to Hoboken. Mainly for the following reasons
1) Stops - since presumably NJ Transit is going to run this, there'll be some stops in NJ even on an "express" line. The new NJ stops are pretty much guaranteed on this but there might also be major stops like Morristown/Dover/Summit along the way. Newark Broad St. will probably also be a stop as will Secaucus before the line ends in Hoboken. Stops add a lot of time onto a train schedule, particularly with NJ transit
2) Capacity - since the new line will be using the existing track/stations/etc as it goes further east and there's no plans to upgrade any of this there'll be the lovely delays due to overcapacity of the system (NJ Transit ALREADY has this as a problem) and resulting systemwide delays due to Amtrak/tunnel problems elsewhere in the system. Also, likely service won't be super frequent due to the capacity problems as you go further east.
3) Diesel vs electrified - all the plans I've seen for this line state that there's no plans to electrify the lines past where they already ARE electrified in NJ - this means that the train will have to terminate in Hoboken instead of going direct to NY Penn - particularly now that the ARC tunnel was scrapped. The PATH is quick to the WTC from Hoboken but if you're going to midtown it's a little more annoying from there.
4) Age of the system - most of the tracks already in the system can't take/aren't set up for bullet train/high speeds. Frankly, a lot of the entire system is on 1908 standards - so even if the new segment IS faster and better, it's going to slow considerably when it crosses the Delaware and goes onto the existing tracks.
I'm figuring a minimum of 2 hours by train from Scranton to Hoboken - possibly 2 and a half. That's a long commute to make every day and is going to be a VERY expensive monthly train ticket. It'll probably be close to $30 each way as it's now something like $15 each way from Princeton Junction.
1. Yes NJT will run the NJ segment , but a PA Agency will run the PA part. Idk , how the stops will be , they might run this like an Express Train making a Few stops before Newark / NY or Hoboken. I don't think they stop at every M&E / M/B line(s) stop.
2. Capacity in NJ is fine , the Morristown / Boonton lines have been upgraded in recent years to handle more people and trains. Amtrak is an Issue , but Construction is underway to fix a chokepoint in NJ , between the Morristown line and Northeast Corridor and Portal Bridge which accounts for half the delays. The rest of the Issues are from the tunnel , which will hopefully be replaced by 2025.
3. This will be a Diesel line for now , depending on how Ridership goes it could be Electrified later on. There are few plans to electrify more lines in NJ , its been put on hold....system expansion and ridership increases aren't enough yet. We bought Dual - Diesel / Electric trains for a Few lines , they will use them on this line for NYP service.
4. NJT is upgrading the system as we speak , and we use concrete ties these days which can handle faster trains. The Cut-off was designed ahead of its time , infact the whole Morristown line was , its mostly grade Separated and can handle up to 80mph except in a few spots like Summit and Denville. The wires were replaced back in the 80s and the tracks along most of the route are replaced.
2hrs sounds about right , the price should be capped at 15$ , and less with offpeak roundtrip , and Bulk tickets. The NJ side of the cutoff should be fully restored by 2020 , and to Andover by 2013. This corridor is expected to get 25,000-40,000 , some are New York or Urban Jersey bound commuters , some are Morristown - Parsippany bound commuters , some are reverse commuters from Urban Jersey / NY which is becoming a growing amount. The Philpsburg / Allentown connections should net the same amount of commuters , theres a very big untapped market in Eastern PA and NJT hopes to tap into that. Any Region that has a line to NYC seems to be doing very well atm , look at CT , or Central / North Jersey. Since your region is dying a train would probably bring it back and in a good way. People would be moving into Scranton and not fleeing it.
Crappy ideas such as this should be funded by private investors. I for one will never ride a train that will take so long. I much rather drive or take a bus (and get to watch a movie BTW) then take a slow, expensive train. I just don't see how this can be a success. Common sense says that people will inevitably choose the quicker, cheaper, more convenient method of travel. As a W-B taxpayer, I don't want to pay the initial tab, and definatley do not want to pay the upkeep and mantainance on this "train wreck" of an idea after the nostalgia factor wears off, and ridership grinds to a trickle. It's almost as dumb as dumping 40 million dollars into a stadium that nobody goes to and is something like 20 years old.
Crappy ideas such as this should be funded by private investors. I for one will never ride a train that will take so long. I much rather drive or take a bus (and get to watch a movie BTW) then take a slow, expensive train. I just don't see how this can be a success. Common sense says that people will inevitably choose the quicker, cheaper, more convenient method of travel. As a W-B taxpayer, I don't want to pay the initial tab, and definatley do not want to pay the upkeep and mantainance on this "train wreck" of an idea after the nostalgia factor wears off, and ridership grinds to a trickle. It's almost as dumb as dumping 40 million dollars into a stadium that nobody goes to and is something like 20 years old.
Well thats you , i'm tired of this "Me" thing , not everybody is like you and theres alot of support for the train. NY state also wants it to go to Binghamton , so it will have to come through NE PA. 25-40,000 is alot of Rail passengers , when gas starts rising and your region starts dying....don't complain about not having an Alt mode of Transport. NJDOT isn't planning on widening I-80 and NEPA is adding to the Congestion , so thats another reason NJ wants the train , to get PA drivers off our highways. Same with the Lehigh Valley Train service , PA commuters cause alot of stress and overcrowding to our Highways.... NEPA will also be brought into the 21st century and into the Megapolis...
Well thats you , i'm tired of this "Me" thing , not everybody is like you and theres alot of support for the train. NY state also wants it to go to Binghamton , so it will have to come through NE PA. 25-40,000 is alot of Rail passengers , when gas starts rising and your region starts dying....don't complain about not having an Alt mode of Transport. NJDOT isn't planning on widening I-80 and NEPA is adding to the Congestion , so thats another reason NJ wants the train , to get PA drivers off our highways. Same with the Lehigh Valley Train service , PA commuters cause alot of stress and overcrowding to our Highways.... NEPA will also be brought into the 21st century and into the Megapolis...
Why does NY want the train to Binghamton to go through Scranton. There's already freight tracks (NS) in NY that go from Port Jervis to Binghanton and stay within NY borders. There's also abandoned tracks in Orange, Sullivan, and Delaware counties going in the same direction. If the train is so good for communities, you'd think that they would want to serve as many NY communities as they can. Unless they want someone else to pay for the train.
If gas keeps going up, people in NEPA that currently commute will either move closer to the city or find a job locally. Congestion on I-80 solved.
And finally, I don't want to be brought into the Megapolis.
Why does NY want the train to Binghamton to go through Scranton. There's already freight tracks (NS) in NY that go from Port Jervis to Binghanton and stay within NY borders. There's also abandoned tracks in Orange, Sullivan, and Delaware counties going in the same direction. If the train is so good for communities, you'd think that they would want to serve as many NY communities as they can. Unless they want someone else to pay for the train.
If gas keeps going up, people in NEPA that currently commute will either move closer to the city or find a job locally. Congestion on I-80 solved.
And finally, I don't want to be brought into the Megapolis.
Its faster to go through NEPA , then through the NY part. Its also less hilly and straighter..... Actually the plan is to create a network up in the Southern Tier. The Truth is your already a part of the Megapolis , this Railway will hopefully keep your region from exploding recklessly and give some new life. Theres seems to be enough support on the PA side , just not the funding thanks to Harrisburg. An Infastrature investment is very good thing it spurs jobs and can attract companies from NJ or NY.....alot of companies over the past 10 years have moved along Railways. As for the people moving closer to the jobs , that will happen , but not enough to justify killing the line. Get ready to bring your region into the 21st Century and out of the depressing 20th Century.
Its faster to go through NEPA , then through the NY part. Its also less hilly and straighter..... Actually the plan is to create a network up in the Southern Tier. The Truth is your already a part of the Megapolis , this Railway will hopefully keep your region from exploding recklessly and give some new life. Theres seems to be enough support on the PA side , just not the funding thanks to Harrisburg. An Infastrature investment is very good thing it spurs jobs and can attract companies from NJ or NY.....alot of companies over the past 10 years have moved along Railways. As for the people moving closer to the jobs , that will happen , but not enough to justify killing the line. Get ready to bring your region into the 21st Century and out of the depressing 20th Century.
I agree, in most Geographic/Population data I have read/researched.....Scranton/Wilkes-Barre is indeed part of the Northeast Megalopolis already. And it should have integrated passenger rail service with the rest of the "corridor".
I honestly don't understand how this will be any different then a Martz Bus on railroad tracks...Someone explain to me how exactly this boondoggle will attract jobs and desirable new residents? If the Martz buses are not bringing thousands of people and thousands of jobs, how will a slower, less convenient, and probably more expensive passenger train be any different? Harrisburg has Amtrack. Why hasn't thier population exploded? Port Jervis is still a small town. Why hasn't it become the next northeast big city? Any population and job growth would extend only over the border into the Stroudsburg region (if there was any at all). Who would want to commute and extra hour to Scranton? At least the pocono's are desirable to big city commuters because or the woods and rural aspect, but what does a small, old, rust belt city like Scranton have to offer that one would want to give up NYC for? Passenger service to our region died for a reason. If this is not gonna be high speed, I simply do not see any benefit besides a feather in Scranton's cap that helps it look like a more modern, "metro" area...but besides that, I just don't understand this claim that all these jobs and people are just waiting to move here by the droves and turn us into some economic powerhouse....PLEASE!!!
Whether the provincialists in NEPA would like to admit this or not you are indeed already annexed into the BosWash Corridor so stop sticking your heads in the sand. Pike County is officially part of New York City's consolidated metropolitan area (CSA). I firmly believe that Monroe County will follow Pike County in being absorbed by the NYC CSA in the future as an ever-increasing percentage of Monroe County residents commute into the NYC area. Monroe and Pike Counties are included in the NYC media market for Nielsen rating purposes. NEPA is growing modestly overall, fueled largely by minorities flooding in from the BosWash Corridor in pursuit of cheaper housing and a better overall quality-of-life. The city proper of Scranton will now likely post a population gain from 2010 to 2020 after generations of a steep nosedive that has left the city with roughly half of its heyday peak residents.
At least the pocono's are desirable to big city commuters because or the woods and rural aspect, but what does a small, old, rust belt city like Scranton have to offer that one would want to give up NYC for?!!!
How about the ability to afford a walkable and sustainable lifestyle on a thrift store budget? I moved to Pittsburgh from NoVA for the same reason as I'm sure many would move to a place like Scranton from NYC for---some semblance of urbanity without the stress, congestion, headaches, and expense. I'm earning less money in Pittsburgh, but my overall quality-of-life has improved. I'm sure many NYC expatriates now living in Scranton can say the same.
I honestly don't understand how this will be any different then a Martz Bus on railroad tracks...
This ^ is the the question I have too. Why build a train if there's a bus that's already serving the same purpose? Is it oversubscribed?
I personally love to ride on trains, but for commuting purposes I would choose whatever mode of transportation would be least expensive and more convenient. Why would people choose the train over a bus if the train cost more? And if the cost was subsidized to attract riders, wouldn't that be unfair to the bus company?
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And it should have integrated passenger rail service with the rest of the "corridor".
