Remove all the Confederate stuff in Virginia, FFS (Bull Run, Floyd: crimes, vs.)

[NOVA_guy]

Originally Posted by JD984

It gets blurry at times. In Fairfax County, some of the same School Board members who were keenest to rename schools named after Confederates also went right along with a boundary change that concentrated poverty at one of the local middle schools. I can't say they were hypocritical, but they didn't exactly have their eye on the ball, either.

It’s definitely odd how the people who claim to be the most progressive are also the same people who purposefully move to an area where their kid will go to a school where the Black and Latino population is less than 15% or very minimal. There’s definitely some cognitive dissonance there but at the same time, they didn’t create this system, they’re just trying to ensure their kid flourishes within it.

So what you’re saying is true but I also think it gets complicated at certain points and there’s parts where people need to call themselves out on their own hypocrisy.

I see both sides - symbols are important, it’s backwards imo to celebrate certain people who don’t stand for what we say this country stands for. At the same time, it’s easy to change a school name but let’s also make sure we’re doing the real work to dismantle systemic racism.

[Johnathon Hills]

Note to all:

You allowed someone named Kieran from NJ to get you riled up like this. Do better.

[ICS67]

Originally Posted by Johnathon Hills

Note to all:

You allowed someone named Kieran from NJ to get you riled up like this. Do better.

Nah, Kieran is our resident troll who gives us something to pass the time as we self-isolate in the time of the corona virus.


You think this thread has gone off the rails? Try this one that he started (you only need to read his initial post)


https://www.city-data.com/forum/nort...situation.html

[nva06]

Originally Posted by ICS67

Nah, Kieran is our resident troll who gives us something to pass the time as we self-isolate in the time of the corona virus.


You think this thread has gone off the rails? Try this one that he started (you only need to read his initial post)


https://www.city-data.com/forum/nort...situation.html

Not to be rude toward the OP or in general. But I laughed so hard when I read the thread and what the OP was saying. For some reason all I could think about was Eddie Murphy’s Trading Places movie

[ParadiseKendra]

Of all the things in the present day to work on, and during a global pandemic, I have absolutely no respect for you if a statue of someone who's been dead for hundreds of years even crosses your mind, let alone bothers you to the point where you need to get up, leave your house, and take action measures to get rid of it.

I am a liberal and never once has it occurred to me to remove any monuments of structures. They are no threat to me, they do not represent me, they provide identity and understanding of a place and time.

This has been a wake up call for me of who I am and who I am not. I do not need to destroy historic structures and monuments because they are confederate and I am from the Midwest and not from the North or South. I am fascinated to learn about both and am extraordinarily outraged that so much history has been removed, vandalized, and destroyed that will forever impact my ability to learn about what happened in my country.

These people need to start visiting assisted living facilities, the isolated, the lonely, and start actually helping people who need it.

[nva06]

Originally Posted by ParadiseKendra

Of all the things in the present day to work on, and during a global pandemic, I have absolutely no respect for you if a statue of someone who's been dead for hundreds of years even crosses your mind, let alone bothers you to the point where you need to get up, leave your house, and take action measures to get rid of it.

I am a liberal and never once has it occurred to me to remove any monuments of structures. They are no threat to me, they do not represent me, they provide identity and understanding of a place and time.

This has been a wake up call for me of who I am and who I am not. I do not need to destroy historic structures and monuments because they are confederate and I am from the Midwest and not from the North or South. I am fascinated to learn about both and am extraordinarily outraged that so much history has been removed, vandalized, and destroyed that will forever impact my ability to learn about what happened in my country.

These people need to start visiting assisted living facilities, the isolated, the lonely, and start actually helping people who need it.

Cool, nobody is begging for your respect. This is America people are entitled to believe whatever you they want.

[webster]

These statues, names of schools and streets and portraits in courtroom memorialize a disgraceful four years of Virginia history. They helped perpetuate a myth that their cause was noble. That they were somehow honorable men even as they committed treason to the Union and renounced their oath of allegiance which read under the 1830 revision then in effect:

"I, _____, appointed a _____ in the Army of the United States, do solemnly swear, or affirm, that I will bear true allegiance to the United States of America, and that I will serve them honestly and faithfully against all their enemies or opposers whatsoever, and observe and obey the orders of the President of the United States, and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the rules and articles for the government of the Armies of the United States.".

They helped perpetuate the myth that Lee was somehow a military genius He was a bungling strategist who ended up responsible for turning much of VA into a wasteland that took almost a century to rebuild. Where is the memorial to Virginia's John Minor Botts? And how does one put up a statue that recognizes that the only way the Davis government controlled VA during that period, even Richmond, was through martial law.

'I know no North, no South, no East, no West. I know only my Country, my whole Country, and nothing but my Country."
Tombstone of John Minor Botts in Richmond, VA

I am actually surprised that so many people like myself, old native Virginians, want these statues gone. As my neighbor said to me, they are scrap metal.

But since this is a Virginia forum, let me end with what it means to be a Virginian:

"To be a Virginian either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state of the Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from above."-Anonymous.

[16 Acres]

Those who have studied and truly know Lee, know he was an exceptionally great person, before, during and after the war. He just got stuck with a decision that no man should ever get stuck with.

If he had any idea on what would have happened, I'm sure he would have never joined the military in the first place.

And in the end, he resigned his post and sided with his homeland.

He just could not wage war against his homeland.

Could you?

[ParadiseKendra]

Originally Posted by nva06

Cool, nobody is begging for your respect. This is America people are entitled to believe whatever you they want.

This is true.

They are not entitled - however - to decide that a historic monument must come down because it offends them. They are not entitled to behead, vandalize, or destroy monuments, or vandalize, burn, or destroy public or private property.

Even though some have gotten away with it, they have gotten away with a criminal act and are therefore setting the movement back and demoralizing everything that many civil rights activists worked so hard to achieve in moving forward. Those who think that the ends justify the means are no different than anyone else in history who has thought that very same thing and used that to justify their actions as they destroyed what wasn't theirs to destroy.

So you are absolutely right. This is America. People are entitled to believe anything they want. But let's review what they are not entitled to do.

"Let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it. If we want our criminal justice system, and American society at large, to operate on a higher ethical code, then we have to model that code ourselves." — President Obama, June 1 2020 (on the BLM rioters and looters)

[nva06]

Originally Posted by ParadiseKendra

This is true.

They are not entitled - however - to decide that a historic monument must come down because it offends them. They are not entitled to behead, vandalize, or destroy monuments, or vandalize, burn, or destroy public or private property.

Even though some have gotten away with it, they have gotten away with a criminal act and are therefore setting the movement back and demoralizing everything that many civil rights activists worked so hard to achieve in moving forward. Those who think that the ends justify the means are no different than anyone else in history who has thought that very same thing and used that to justify their actions as they destroyed what wasn't theirs to destroy.

So you are absolutely right. This is America. People are entitled to believe anything they want. But let's review what they are not entitled to do.

"Let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it. If we want our criminal justice system, and American society at large, to operate on a higher ethical code, then we have to model that code ourselves." — President Obama, June 1 2020 (on the BLM rioters and looters)

Very true. I believe personally that their are many other ways to talk about, learn, and show history than statues glorifying generals and people who performed treason, tanked the south it’s economy and infrastructure, and believed black people should be enslaved. There are many better people that we can glorify than confederate heroes. The vandalism of confederate statues has been a problem long before the BLM and George Floyd protests. People need to know that only few BLM protesters are bad and trying to capitalize on the unrest they are making. Most truly believe in a notable cause that needs to be fought for in America, they believe in change. These Confederate statues serve no purpose and we have no reason to have them up in the first place. Anybody who believes in Lee was a good person honestly needs to reconsider. It’s like saying Hitler was a good man because he brought Germany out of a recession. If you didn’t know Lee actually after the Battle of Gettysburg brought free blacks from Pennsylvania back to the south as property.