Senate Bill 5 (Union, Scott, Florida: loans, neighborhoods, food)

[buzzards27]

so, assuming you are correct and income level of the middle class will continue to fall. Your answer is to help the process along? We should all aid this corporate cabal that is undermining the middle class? What you are suggesting, is that because some in the middle class have been left behind, that everyone else should fall to their level, that we dumb down America to the lowest common denominator.

Instead of destroying the unions that protect middle class workers, how about we make unions stronger and go after the employers that force us to take these $12,000 private sector jobs... Shouldn't a turn around, an end to Bush's Great Recession mean a healthier middle class, shouldn't the middle class be paid a living wage? Instead of loping off the top of the middle class we should be working to improve the lot of those at the bottom...

Originally Posted by RememberMee

OK, let's go back to square 1, how a town with per capita income of 15,000 (2008) can afford $60k police, teachers and firefighters not speaking of the rest above average paid public servants? Mechanics, please. Shall the rest of non public service resident pawn their homes&cars? I repeat, the growing income gap between public and private servants is neither healthy nor sustainable for much longer. It's not like I'm in favor of Republican crackdown on public servants unions, yet public servants did NOTHING (other then collaboration) when corporate America gutted other unions and jobs. Therefore, it's the ripe time for them to join the rest of us mortals in the struggle for survival.

Lower classes were sold an idea that schooling is the only way for their children to escape their parent's ever worsening lot. Everybody can escape working class through education, if he tries hard . Brilliant conditioning. This "idea" did more damage to working class spinal cord then all Republicans combined. Did I mention disappearing childhood? Poor little suckers are robbed of childhood to prepare their little wage slaving arses for a rat race as early as 3 or even 2 years old. Schooling is not the only way to learn things, especially the monstrosity that public education became over the years. In the past communities could afford teachers that they could afford. Old school teachers didn't fare much better than their communities, and guess what, sky did not fall, pupils learned their RRR. Old schools didn't have triple layers of very well compensated administrative ballast and all kinds of "counselors" and such needed for modern schools to become "little bit more" than just a school.

As sad as it sounds for teachers, administrators, etc. their incomes will, whether they like it or not, correlate with average incomes in their communities unless public education is funded by a universal state wide tax. Sure, if they don't like it they may find abundant greener pastures elsewhere. So simple, there are plenty of guys breathing toxic chemicals for $8-9/hr just for love of it, what else may explain their reluctance to move to much greener pastures out there

Bad news, it's capitalism, the future of communities is in the hands of investor class whose decisions are not affected by student's acing (or not) the art of multiple choice tests. More than that, from investor' point of view dumbing down, obedience training, dependence & extended childhood public schools promote is not a bad thing at all, no matter what they say to cover up their true educational preferences.

[Droolrockworm]

Amen to davery and Buzzard...was just about to make the same comments but no need to redo something so well said. As I have said before the real enemies of Ohio/America are the radical capitalists and unfortunatly theve taken the Governorship of Ohio and other states. Privatizing schools has long been a goal of this group and that would lead to a class segregation which would lead to the end of the middle-class. You seem to even want this to happen..why?

[buzzards27]

Good article in Plunderbund about merit pay. Also, read some of the comments. Does SB5′s performance-based pay system exclude special education teachers?

How do you evaluate the performance of a special education teacher? How can you use student test scores? Many special ed student never test.

How about a music teacher? A gym teacher? What about K-2 teachers who aren’t responsible for state testing?

Should we base what we pay doctors on their performance? "...patient health – any morbidity rates = no pay. Any crime = no pay for police officers. Any fires = no pay for firefighters. Any court challenges of legislation = no pay for legislators..." How about we base judges' pay on how many verdicts get over turned on appeal?

Teachers are only a part of a kid's education, if the rest of his support system is defective, is his failure the teachers fault?

[buzzards27]

Action on SB 5 may be fast and furious | Columbus Dispatch Politics (http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/03/29/copy/action-on-sb-5-may-be-fast-and-furious.html?adsec=politics&sid=101 - broken link)

Uecker added: "I and several of my fellow colleagues are in favor of a right-to-work state. Unfortunately, that's not what this bill does, but it sets the framework for conversations later on."

I guess the GOP/Koch game plan is to phase things in with public unions and then move into private unions.

[Droolrockworm]

Quote: [In the past teachers worked for quite piddly wages, and it's not apparent that quality of teaching was climbing hand in hand with teacher' compensation. And teachers don't make nearly as much as multiple layers of education administrators.]

Obviously you haven't been in a classroom in quite a while. Teachers today are responsable for so much more than just test scores and compensation in my experience has never gone past the increases in inflation in the country as a whole. A 3% increase while costs rise the same amount is not a raise at all but just maintaining status quo. In my district we haven't seen an increase at all for 4 years and if you add that to the deductable for our HSA, premium costs, etc, we are doing more for less. As for the administrators they are not unionized and if anything they will wield vastly more power. We see teachers laid off while administrators ask for wages (over 10%) and recieve them from a board that has only their recommendations to base their vote on. Take away our chance to sit across the table from these same people and you will see an increase in these type of activities. Teacher's unions really wield very little power leaving us with only 2 options: 1) grieve an action that violates the CBA or 2) go on strike. Both of these acts require a strict adherance to policy and are not used often. I have only seen 2 strikes in my experience as a teacher and my district has never even come close to taking that drastic action. Why are people so fired up about the public workers when companies like GE made billions, paid no taxes and in fact recieved a 3 billion dollar payoff from the government, and laid people off while giving their CEOs raises getts a pass. There is so much talk about socialism in America but so little talk of the neo-fascism that is occuring at all levels of government. Capitalism only works when there are new markets (NAFTA was an attempt at this but at the cost of private sector jobs), money flowing through the system (not in an offshore account), and competition (deregulation of anti-trust laws has caused major issues here) all done by the same party that pushes crap like SB5 {Clinton also is to blame}. When 90+% of money is in the hands of a few these laws do what makes sense give them more so they will feel like sharing with the rest of us. Obviously this money has to come from somewhere so lets go after the greedy thousandairs and give it to the people who really need it....such a well thought out idea I wish I would have thought of it first....of course I would never do it I really do care about my neighbors and fellow Ohioans...even the ones who don't vote with me.

[davery5872]

Here is a copy of an email Kasich sent out today. Is he running for something? Why does he need contributions?



Last evening was a victory for Ohio taxpayers.
The General Assembly passed Senate Bill 5 and local governments will now have more tools to control their budgets and provide better services to you at a lower cost.
I will sign Senate Bill 5 today.
But this is just one step towards fixing our state and making the necessary reforms to bring jobs to Ohio.
Will you support our ongoing efforts to fight for Ohio taxpayers with a $20, $10 or even $5 contribution today and help us continue to return the balance of power?
There is a reason that the union bosses opposed these changes; because it strips power from the union leaders and returns it to the taxpayers and workers. But make no mistake; we are fighting to save Ohio and need your help.
The nation is watching us in Ohio and we will provide the leadership necessary to become a job creating state and serve as a model for the rest of America.
Thank you again for your continued support.
Sincerely,
John Kasich
Governor of Ohio

[buzzards27]

he knows he has costly court battles and a referendum battle to wage, it is going to cost a lot. his teabagger friends are a mile wide and an 1/8" deep. The unions on the other hand will have a real grassroots organization behind them.

Originally Posted by davery5872

Here is a copy of an email Kasich sent out today. Is he running for something? Why does he need contributions?



Last evening was a victory for Ohio taxpayers.
The General Assembly passed Senate Bill 5 and local governments will now have more tools to control their budgets and provide better services to you at a lower cost.
I will sign Senate Bill 5 today.
But this is just one step towards fixing our state and making the necessary reforms to bring jobs to Ohio.
Will you support our ongoing efforts to fight for Ohio taxpayers with a $20, $10 or even $5 contribution today and help us continue to return the balance of power?
There is a reason that the union bosses opposed these changes; because it strips power from the union leaders and returns it to the taxpayers and workers. But make no mistake; we are fighting to save Ohio and need your help.
The nation is watching us in Ohio and we will provide the leadership necessary to become a job creating state and serve as a model for the rest of America.
Thank you again for your continued support.
Sincerely,
John Kasich
Governor of Ohio

[davery5872]

Originally Posted by buzzards27

he knows he has costly court battles and a referendum battle to wage, it is going to cost a lot. his teabagger friends are a mile wide and an 1/8" deep. The unions on the other hand will have a real grassroots organization behind them.

I really doubt if any of this money is going to have anything to do with SB 5. It is probably just going into Kasich's war chest for 2014. With any luck at all, we will make that a moot point.

[buzzards27]

sorry, forgot to switch off the sarcasm LOL

Originally Posted by davery5872

I really doubt if any of this money is going to have anything to do with SB 5. It is probably just going into Kasich's war chest for 2014. With any luck at all, we will make that a moot point.

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by buzzards27

he knows he has costly court battles and a referendum battle to wage, it is going to cost a lot. his teabagger friends are a mile wide and an 1/8" deep. The unions on the other hand will have a real grassroots organization behind them.

And non-union members like me that give a DARN about the whole country, not just making the fat cats richer at everyone else's expense.