Anti-Christmas Villans in Ashland (Portland: appointed, construction, school)

[Dual Citizen CA-OR]

Originally Posted by Steve97415

...Perceptions based on ignorance don't need to be validated by changes to public policy.

In a perfect world my friend, maybe so, but it’s done all the time here.

[mrwumpus]

Originally Posted by Silverfall

Life isn't neutral. Life isn't equal, nor is it fair. One of the best things we can do for our children is to teach them that we aren't all alike and that we don't all do things the same way. I think the holidays and the many differences in celebrations across the world is a fabulous teaching opportunity. The fact is that kids are excited about this time of year. How cool is it to teach a child that as excited as they are about Christmas, another child is just as excited about Kwanza?

I agree with your first point that life is not fair, but why make it less fair in the name of diversity? For instance, is it fair to force an unnatural equality between centuries of Western Christmas traditions and something like Kwanza, which was invented in 1966?

If we're going to suppress the obvious dominate cultural traditions of the majority of Americans in favor of "diversity" then why not at least try to play fair and bring up authentic Christmas traditions like the Russian Orthodox? Surely that deserves more play than Kwanza? How unfair is that to the millions of Russian immigrants and their descendants who practice an Orthodox Christmas tradition?

My daughter's Girl Scout troop sang Christmas carols at an old folks home yesterday, and they didn't sing one single carol with a hint of Christian "religious" tradition. For many of these old people this will be their last, lonely Christmas. Don't you think a majority of them would have enjoyed hearing these beautiful children singing Silent Night? Apparently someone didn't, but they did sneak in a Channukah song. Was that fair?

That's the problem of political correctness in all its forms. It sets itself up to be a redress of injustice and ends up increasing injustice. At least it helps confirm that life isn't fair.

[Silverfall]

Originally Posted by mrwumpus

I agree with your first point that life is not fair, but why make it less fair in the name of diversity? For instance, is it fair to force an unnatural equality between centuries of Western Christmas traditions and something like Kwanza, which was invented in 1966?

If we're going to suppress the obvious dominate cultural traditions of the majority of Americans in favor of "diversity" then why not at least try to play fair and bring up authentic Christmas traditions like the Russian Orthodox? Surely that deserves more play than Kwanza? How unfair is that to the millions of Russian immigrants and their descendants who practice an Orthodox Christmas tradition?

My daughter's Girl Scout troop sang Christmas carols at an old folks home yesterday, and they didn't sing one single carol with a hint of Christian "religious" tradition. For many of these old people this will be their last, lonely Christmas. Don't you think a majority of them would have enjoyed hearing these beautiful children singing Silent Night? Apparently someone didn't, but they did sneak in a Channukah song. Was that fair?

That's the problem of political correctness in all its forms. It sets itself up to be a redress of injustice and ends up increasing injustice. At least it helps confirm that life isn't fair.

I thought Boy and Girl Scouts were Christian based organizations. I find that highly odd that they were trying to be politically correct.

No I don't think you should suppress the dominant religious overtones. I mean if I went to China for Christmas I wouldn't expect them to celebrate Christmas like we do, if at all. If I went to Israel, I would expect to see Chanukah stuff all over the nation. Canada celebrates their Thanksgiving in October. I don't get offended if someone doesn't do something my way and am curious about the way they do things.

For me it's not about being politically diverse as much as it is learning about others ways of life. The fact is that we have a global economy and the more our children learn about other cultures, even from the simple things such as how they celebrate the holidays, I personally think this is a great thing for our children to learn starting at a young age.

I don't think it is possible to pick a holiday song for all religions or cultures. I think you do some type of sample and do that. I do know that my kids teacher did tell them that Kwanza is a new tradition and explained the start of that tradition...as she did with some of the other ones. I mean these are first graders so it was really basic, but I though what she did was really appropriate.

You can't teach little kids about every culture around the world. That is not realistic. You take a sample and teach them to be curious and respectful about our fellow humans traditions and cultures.

[Deezus]

The holiday giving tree is going to be put back up at the Ashland school...

Ashland school will return holiday tree after nationwide outcry | Oregon Local News - OregonLive.com

[Metlakatla]

Newseum - Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus

Remember this?

"VIRGINIA O'HANLON.
"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET."

VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

And some people want to take that away from our children.

[steel7]

Originally Posted by Deezus

The holiday giving tree is going to be put back up at the Ashland school...

Ashland school will return holiday tree after nationwide outcry | Oregon Local News - OregonLive.com

Good news. The principal (ms.scrooge) should be ashamed of herself.

[backdrifter]

This principal is catching way too much flak. If I had been in her position I would have done the same. If enough parents lodged complaints, I would have taken the tree down too.

Now, I do understand that Christmas is essentially a secular, capitalist, general American holiday at this point, and that a Christmas tree or Santa Claus is pretty neutral. Yet it is important to make sure that, in public schools, no child is alienated based on school sponsorship of any given religious-based holiday celebration. This situation is unique because it involves a PUBLIC school and young children. Of course they'll see private displays of other people celebrating a holiday, but it won't be in their school. Better to celebrate nothing than try to please everyone or to risk the alienation of young children in their own schools. But at least these aren't crucifixes in the public classrooms like they have in Italy...

[davefr]

Originally Posted by eagle7

Good news. The principal (ms.scrooge) should be ashamed of herself.

Yes, and maybe when she's working on 12/25 she should actually read the constitution.

We don't need idiots like this running school systems and cowtowering to everyone's little whim.

[jrkliny]

Supporting religious freedoms is a long way from "cowtowering to everyone's little whim." It is clear that that many on this forum have had the freedom to follow their own religious beliefs. Just for a brief moment why not think about what is might be like to be in the minority and not have support, or even neutrality or freedoms. Just for a brief moment the women might imagine what it would be like to live in Iran and need to keep your mouth shut and your face covered. I am sure that somehow seems different than subjecting others to your beliefs.

[davefr]

Originally Posted by jrkliny

Supporting religious freedoms is a long way from "cowtowering to everyone's little whim." It is clear that that many on this forum have had the freedom to follow their own religious beliefs. Just for a brief moment why not think about what is might be like to be in the minority and not have support, or even neutrality or freedoms. Just for a brief moment the women might imagine what it would be like to live in Iran and need to keep your mouth shut and your face covered. I am sure that somehow seems different than subjecting others to your beliefs.

There's no correlation between having a Christmas tree at the school and the supression of individual's freedom of religious beliefs.