Need Advice! (teenagers, teaching, baby, toys)

[dreameyes]

Hi there all you wise parents. My 4 year old is such a handful, I just dont know what to do. He is getting really whiny when he doesnt get what he wants and a little mouthy as far as saying things like no you stop it, or no you go to time out (when I say it to him) He is like really active and full of energy, almost hyper sometimes (no I dont think he has ADD) Hes just a rambuncous energetic 4 yr. old. He takes toys away from his little sister all the time. Its like whatever she goes for he screams no its mine or no sister. I try to put him in time out when hes naughty but it just seems like id be doing it constantly. I like the idea of having house rules and he gets punished when he doesnt follow them but how can I make him do that when his sister is too young so it might make him confused why she doesnt follow the rules like he does? does that make sense? And he also quite often does the no i dont want this and then you take it and he screams that he does thing if that makes any sense? Like you ask him if he wants....whatever....and he says no so you go and then he says yes and you come and then he says no......yada yada yada. I know im just kinda rambling but I really get so frustrated sometimes. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I know its not that bad of a situation, he is a good kid, I just get so frustrated.

[amy234]

You might want to read the thread on discipline posted some time back. You might find something that fits your style and see if it works.

Just videotape some of those showdowns, you can show it to your little ones later when they are big. There will be some big smiles then.

[golfgal]

I always said that 4 year olds were a preview for their teenage years! What your son is doing is normal for that age but that doesn't mean he should get away with it. When he whines, you don't respond or you tell him that you will listen to him when he can talk in a big boy voice and walk away from him. Taking toys from his sister, then he gets a time out for not sharing--keep in mind that SHE might have taken it from HIM first too.

He is old enough to understand that his sister is a baby and he is a big boy. If he wants to act like a baby then you treat him like a baby. He gets a bottle and takes a nap. He can't play with Lego's or whatever his favorite toy is because he is a baby not a big boy--it doesn't take long for them to figure out what is more fun--baby or big boy. Also allow him to do some extra big boy stuff like staying up a half hour later then his sister or take him to McDonalds or someplace without his sister because she is a baby and he is a big boy.

It is REALLY easy to get stuck blaming him for everything but there is a good chance that the sister is causing some of this. Don't just jump to the conclusion that he is always wrong.

One of the best things I learned to do with kids was if there was a fight, something gets broken, whatever is to ask the kids "tell me what I just saw" even though you didn't see it all. They will think you did and it is easier to get the whole story. If he takes a toy from his sister "tell me what I just saw"? Why did you take that toy from your sister? Keep asking questions about what happened BEFORE he did that to get down to it. If you find that SHE took his toy first, put here in time out to show that she can get in trouble too.

[veuvegirl]

I would say the most important thing to do is be consistent; whatever you decide to do. The four year old is testing you; so you need to set limits.

He needs to be put in time outs when he is misbehaving; and you need to be consistent. Like another poster said he is old enough to understand he is a big boy, and his sister is a baby. If you don't start now, the behavior will just get worse!

[movingtohouston]

I just got a book from the library last week to read to my 3 year old who is like that. It was called Bossy Bear (don't know the author, sorry). It has this little bear who tells others what to do and is constantly saying mine or gimme, generally being a brat. He figures out that being bossy and not sharing will cause others not to play with him and in the end he changes. Good book. Now I say to my son when he tries to take things that aren't his or talks back "are you a bossy bear" and he says no and stops what he is doing.

I don't know how long the effect will last but it helped a little here in my house. Good luck.

[dreameyes]

Thanks for the advice ive gotten. And thanks moving for the book recommendation. Ill definatley look for that one.

[DD70]

Four year olds can be very egocentricand and if they have a younger sib? EVEN more so, as they try to figure out how the world applies to them and they break away from you these issues are normal but they can be a problem (especially for moms) I agree that the monotony of time-outs and the frustration of back talk can be a hair-pulling experience.
Have you tried short word commands? Often times as parents we tend to give drawn out explanations as to why and why not and we in the process lose them at the fifth word.
If you see that he has snatched something away from your daughter the best thing to do is ask him, "Was she done playing with it yet?" If you ask him this it is not combative , it is just a question. If he replies, "No, mine" Ignore this since this is what drives you nuts and tell him do not give him a choice, "Ask her if you can play with it" If he refuses, just tell him, "I'm going to help you" this creates a dialogue between him and his sister even though she may be too young t understand, this way both children are validated. If he still refuses to give it to her and she is crying tell him, "I can see you are having a hard time making a good choice so I AM GOING TO HELP YOU MAKE ONE" Take the toy give it to your daughter and then help him find something interesting. As you are doing this tell him, "You can play with it after she is done" If he begins to cry and scream, even though you think it is ridiculous, validate his feelings, "I can see that you are upset" and leave it at that. Acouple of runs with this will allow him to see that his negative behavior is no longer being indulged, he is not getting the reaction that he wants from you and will lose interest in the behavior.
As far as the whiny behavior this is typical and well within the normal range of behaviors for this age. Sometimes they do not what they want, when this happens offer him 2 choices and leave it at that.
Good luck

[esya]

1. Stop making excuses for his unacceptable behavior.
2. You are the adult; you make the rules and you don't need to apologize for it or explain to a four year old. A four year old has no capacity to reason, only to act on impulse.
3. All kids like to know the rules and he's not going to be "confused" because you have different ones for his baby sister.
4. If you have concerns about equal treatment, look at your own upbringing. Are you sure they aren't your own issues?

[DD70]

Originally Posted by esya

1. Stop making excuses for his unacceptable behavior.
2. You are the adult; you make the rules and you don't need to apologize for it or explain to a four year old. A four year old has no capacity to reason, only to act on impulse.
3. All kids like to know the rules and he's not going to be "confused" because you have different ones for his baby sister.
4. If you have concerns about equal treatment, look at your own upbringing. Are you sure they aren't your own issues?

Of course at this age they have the ability to reason it is the way they are approached which determines whether or not this will be a negative or positive experience.
Moments like this should be thought as "Teachable moments" By giving them the words and showing how to make good chopices you will help develop a independant thinker.
And at this age they can be irrational, jealousy or the misunderstanding of why the baby is allowed to behave one way and he is not is a fact of life, again explaining in short sentences and helping the child understand the rules and clear expectations is key as you stated. I agree with you in the fact that all children desire consistancy and routine that ability to predict their day and everyday occurances helps them feel more in control of their environment also to feel SAFE.
And the latter of your post was a bit harsh, it is easy to become frazzled when you are at your wits ends and easier for others to offer advice when they are looking in instead of in the thick of it.

[esya]

I do not think that the majority of four year olds have a well developed capacity to reason. By that, I mean the ability to make independent choices that evaluate the costs and benefits of a course of conduct. It also requires the ability to put one's self interest second to the interests of others at times. Of course, there are exceptions to every generalization.

Of course I agree that you should and can role model rational behavior by what you say and do. The four year old might have a theoretical potential, that is all. The child will only be as rational as the adults they come into contact with.

There are adults who recognize that while it is great if the kid can understand, at the kid's level, the reason for something, the adult still has the DUTY to make a decision and to make it in a manner that protects the child's wellbeing. Even if a child is upset or does not or will not understand, the decision has to be made and at some point talking is futile or even counterproductive. Even with teenagers there are times when caretakers must take actions that are extremely unpleasant to carry out--simply because it is recognized that the teenager is not acting in their own self interest for the long run.

As for independent thinking, that comes from giving the child choices at a level they can handle. Teaching them how to act or talk like the role model simply gives them the ability to act or talk like the role model. Plenty of adults do not have the capacity to reason these days, either, because making decisions different from the group norm is simply unacceptable. That is not independent thinking, it is group conformity.

As for looking at one's own issues, I am totally with Freud on this one--we cannot teach what we do not understand in ourselves. If we fear being hurt, we will hesitate to hurt someone. If we fear being alone, we will not take action that causes us to be isolated, and so on. My comment was not focused on a "frazzled" person, it was focused on all of us as humans. A person will feel frazzled forever until they give themselves personal authority to set limits and boundaries they can feel good about. "What am I afraid of and how is that fear affecting my conduct?" or "What is the best thing that can happen here and how can I achieve it?" are very productive questions for all of us to ask ourselves on a daily basis.

I myself had a horrible time toilet training a child with a disability because it was tedious. I joked, finally, that the chart in the bathroom with stars was not a reward system for my child but for me. This worked. Had I not recognized that the problem was in ME, the child might not have overcome this issue, huh?