Is Pennsylvania's state politics different from the rest of the country? (Philadelphia: transplants, to live in)

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

What does a voter ID law that hasn't been enforced have to do with anything?

The fact that New Jersey and Maryland can pass same sex marriage legislation through both houses says a lot about their electorates, no?

You determine how socially conservative a place is by polling. You don't simply ask "Are you a conservative?" You may ask "Are you in favor of the death penalty?" or "Are you in favor of legalized abortion?" or "Are you in favor of gun control?" In Pennsylvania, there are simply many more people that express more conservative social views. I'm not sure why anyone would ever find this to be controversial or even shocking. I always thought it was something that was well-known about Pennsylvania.

You do realize that much more of Pennsylvania used to be blue, right?

I actually take offense to the accusation that I have some type of conservative agenda when I quit a good job to travel to little towns all New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Virginia and North Carolina to help elect the guy in office now. What were you doing in 2007-2008?

1) The voter ID law has not been enforced, but the people at the polls asked for a photo ID this year and during the presidential election. I witnessed an argument between a poll worker and a woman who did not have her photo ID about the law. The confusion has definitely influenced who is voting and the entire thing is a shame.

2) You do realize that since 2007-08 people have been moving to more urban areas in PA and while Philly and SEPA is getting more progressive, the rural, mostly vacant areas are getting more conservative right? This is not a big deal in terms of the state's political leanings because areas like Venango county are shrinking and it does not matter how "red" an area is if it is vacant.

[Sayid Linus]

Originally Posted by trackstar13

1) The voter ID law has not been enforced, but the people at the polls asked for a photo ID this year and during the presidential election. I witnessed an argument between a poll worker and a woman who did not have her photo ID about the law. The confusion has definitely influenced who is voting and the entire thing is a shame.

2) You do realize that since 2007-08 people have been moving to more urban areas in PA and while Philly and SEPA is getting more progressive, the rural, mostly vacant areas are getting more conservative right? This is not a big deal in terms of the state's political leanings because areas like Venango county are shrinking and it does not matter how "red" an area is if it is vacant.

You were not required to show id in last year's election. If you were asked you could simply say no. I personally wasn't asked but would have said no.
Unless it was your first time voting at a particular polling place.


I agree that PA will probably get more "liberal". But it is agonizingly slow. And the fact that part of it is waiting for people to die is depressing.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by Sayid Linus

You were not required to show id in last year's election. If you were asked you could simply say no. I personally wasn't asked but would have said no.
Unless it was your first time voting at a particular polling place.


I agree that PA will probably get more "liberal". But it is agonizingly slow. And the fact that part of it is waiting for people to die is depressing.

Yes I know about the voter id law, I am one of those people who votes in all the local elections and the presidential elections. I was surprised about the argument I saw at the polls, because the female voter was asked for her id and she said that she did not have it. Well the poll worker, who was also female, told her that she would have to come back when she had it. After said discussion an argument ensued and people in the line were talking about it and Googling the law lol. Eventually the lady gave up arguing with the poll worker/volunteer and just said okay I will go back to my car and get my driver's license. Granted this is just one instance, in one polling precinct, but it is troubling that someone's right to vote would even be questioned and require defense. It was funny a few people near me in line even had their ids and they refused to show them to the polling lady and argued with her further. I thought things were going to get ugly, but eventually the poll lady gave up her fight and stopped checking ids.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by Sayid Linus

I agree that PA will probably get more "liberal". But it is agonizingly slow. And the fact that part of it is waiting for people to die is depressing.

I agree that this is depressing and I wish more younger people would vote, that would be an alternative to the waiting for older people to die. It is pretty sad going to the polls and feeling like the youngest person there when I am in my mid 30s.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

No, that's not why people call it that. When people say "Pennsyltucky," they are referring to James Carville's statement that "Pennsylvania is Alabama without the Blacks."

In other words, they can't even keep their geography straight.

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

They're talking about the cultural dynamics of the rural parts of the state (guns, NASCAR, religion, etc.) rather than the topography or industry.

Even though the quality of life is better in rural Pennsylvania than it is in Kentucky or Alabama? High school graduation rates in rural Pennsylvania are significantly higher, as is the percentage of people with health insurance. And the rates of poverty, obesity, teen pregnancy, STDs and drug abuse are much lower in rural Pennsylvania as well. For that matter, Kentucky is heavily Baptist, and Alabama is even more heavily Baptist, yet rural Pennsylvania is predominantly Catholic. Oh, but because people in rural Pennsylvania like hunting, NASCAR and country music, that somehow negates all the differences between there and Kentucky/Alabama, right?

Originally Posted by Sayid Linus

I agree that PA will probably get more "liberal". But it is agonizingly slow. And the fact that part of it is waiting for people to die is depressing.

Everybody said Pittsburgh was a "dying" city 10 years ago, but look at it now. It's actually become quite forward-thinking, especially among Pittsburghers under the age of 45. The median age in the city of Pittsburgh is now below the median age in the United States, and the average age dropped by more than two years between 2000 and 2010. And much of the population over the age of 50 is now beginning to move out of Allegheny County as well. As a result, Pittsburgh and Allegheny County have become a forward-thinking island of relative youth in a sea of hicks and elderly. Pittsburgh is being reborn from the inside out.

This is why I've said that Pennsylvania will have the most significant demographic changes of any of the 12 most populous U.S. states by the 2020 Census. What's starting to happen in Pennsylvania now is what started to happen in Pittsburgh about 10 years ago. In 1990, Pennsylvania was the second-oldest state in the United States, and the third-oldest in 2000. It's now the sixth-oldest in the United States, and it won't even be among the 10 oldest by 2020. The die-off of the elderly is what impeded population growth in Pennsylvania since 2000. Almost all the growth came from domestic migration and foreign immigration.

Currently, I'd say the state most like Pennsylvania politically is not Ohio or Michigan, but Wisconsin: not as liberal as neighboring states, but somewhat more liberal than the United States at large. Michigan and Ohio are now what Pennsylvania was 10 to 20 years ago. Social conservatives are a dying breed in Pennsylvania, literally and figuratively.

[blazerj]

Originally Posted by Sayid Linus

You were not required to show id in last year's election. If you were asked you could simply say no. I personally wasn't asked but would have said no.
Unless it was your first time voting at a particular polling place.


I agree that PA will probably get more "liberal". But it is agonizingly slow. And the fact that part of it is waiting for people to die is depressing.

Kind of. I voted for the 1st time at a polling place PA in 2012. They asked me for my license, but I refused (mostly out of curiosity as the site I went to obviously required people to drive there) and it wasn't an issue at all.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

Even though the quality of life is better in rural Pennsylvania than it is in Kentucky or Alabama? High school graduation rates in rural Pennsylvania are significantly higher, as is the percentage of people with health insurance. And the rates of poverty, obesity, teen pregnancy, STDs and drug abuse are much lower in rural Pennsylvania as well. For that matter, Kentucky is heavily Baptist, and Alabama is even more heavily Baptist, yet rural Pennsylvania is predominantly Catholic. Oh, but because people in rural Pennsylvania like hunting, NASCAR and country music, that somehow negates all the differences between there and Kentucky/Alabama, right?

The next time James Carville or Howard Fineman go on the news and make that statement, you should immediately call into NBC or ABC and set the record straight! Seriously.

People say "Pennsyltucky" or "Alabama without the Blacks" because that part of the state is eerily similar to some parts of the South in a lot of ways. Nobody's saying that they are exactly alike in all ways. Again, if you have a problem with it, then you should take up it up with the Pennsylvanians and non-Pennsylvanians who say it. And you should go write a factual detailed entry on Urban Dictionary so you can dispel the ignorance.

And what difference does it make if you're Catholic or Baptist? Sean Hannity is Catholic. You could be Catholic and own a gun, hate black people, hate immigrants, hate Obamacare, oppose abortion and watch the "Most Trusted Source for News" (FOX) just like a Protestant in the South. Besides, Pennsylvania is only 30% Catholic, and most of those Catholics are concentrated in the Philly and Pittsburgh metro areas. So the overwhelming majority of the people we're talking about here are not Catholics.

Originally Posted by Gnutella

Currently, I'd say the state most like Pennsylvania politically is not Ohio or Michigan, but Wisconsin: not as liberal as neighboring states, but somewhat more liberal than the United States at large. Michigan and Ohio are now what Pennsylvania was 10 to 20 years ago. Social conservatives are a dying breed in Pennsylvania, literally and figuratively.

And you're saying this based on what?

[BajanYankee]

The rural areas in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin are very different. If rural Pennsylvania voted like rural Wisconsin, then Democrats would win the state by double digits every four years.

2012 Election Results Map by State - Live Voting Updates - POLITICO.com

2012 Election Results Map by State - Live Voting Updates - POLITICO.com

When you look at these maps, you won't find one county in Wisconsin that gave more than 70% support to Romney. Washington and Waukesha Counties came close (69% and 67% respectively). But those counties are outliers. The percentage spread in the vast majority ranges between 2 and 10 points.

Pennsylvania is a different story. The closest counties are in the Pittsburgh and Philadelphia exurbs (along with Centre County, which actually surprised me by going red). Romney won Berks County, for example, by 0.6 percentage points. But these are exceptions. The spreads in the other counties are huge with support for Romney reaching as high as 77 percent.

So the story appears to be that Wisconsin has more politically balanced counties. Pennsylvania has a super liberal city in the east and a less liberal (but Democratic) city in the west that's counterbalanced by heavily Republican rural counties.

[BajanYankee]

Here's Michigan.

2012 Election Results Map by State - Live Voting Updates - POLITICO.com

Seems more similar to Wisconsin. Its most Republican County (Ottawa) gave 66% of its support to Romney. But Michigan is obviously more Democratic than Wisconsin because of the stronger union presence, larger cities, and a significantly larger African American population.

[trackstar13]

Serious question: What is the deal with Somerset County PA and Garrett County MD? These two counties border one another and according to the last presidential election results appear to be among the most conservative areas in the Northeast U.S.