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What about medical school? Technically most doctors got there only by "living beyond their means" for a time. It is virtually impossible to work your way through it.
It's a calculated risk (just like any other student loan situation). Generally a pretty safe one, but if anything (such as developing a serious medical condition) should derail the doctor-to-be's career before most of those loans are repaid, it can end in disaster.
Which is why so many older docs tell their younger associates to keep the wallet closed during those first few years and get those loans repaid STAT. And then keep the wallet closed and start saving like crazy for retirement, because there's a decade or more of lost savings opportunity to make up for there. The McMansion and the Porsche can wait.
"Live within your means" as a phrase and as a popular figure of speech, would seem to be self-evident and obvious, at least on the surface. Simply put, it might represent not spending what you don't have. However -- and this is a big "but" -- it can also get incredibly frustrating to have people automatically parroting this phrase, for several reasons. First, the "means" with which one lives has gone down, not up, over the past 30+ years, with wages not being fairly-adjusted to inflation. What this means on a practical level, is that with the varying levels of inflation and deflation of the dollar over the past few decades, people's standards of living have gone down, not up. It was much easier to "live within one's means" in 1950, 1960, and 1970, than it was was say from 1980 - present. Houses that could once be bought decades ago on a single-income family salary for $25,000 may now, in 2015, cost as much as $750,000+, in certain residential areas. This is an extreme example where it is obvious that the financial industry has "moved the goal posts" of what living within one's means represents today in 2015, vs. what it used to mean.
While observing some degree of "living within one's means" would actually seem prudent and even wise, it almost sounds like some people may take it to drastic extremes, where it is used as a justification for endorsing the gradual (and involuntary) reduction of people's living standards, over time. While also serving as an apologist of sorts to the well-off, well-to-do, and the wealthy. Keeping in mind that it is much, much easier to live within one's means, so to speak, if one is already well-off in the first place.
This is only 1/2 a story. Sure, it's always easier to live within your means if you have a high income, although even many high income people don't save much. But easier is not the same as "easy". Lower income people underestimate how easy it is to increase spending as your income rises.
The big thing that's killing the middle class that get scant media attention is that today we have a 40% out of wedlock birth rate. This is a disaster, financially, and in a lot of other ways. If we had the same out of wedlock birth rate as we did in 1980, we would have a lot less poverty and we'd have more people in the middle class.
This is only 1/2 a story. Sure, it's always easier to live within your means if you have a high income, although even many high income people don't save much. But easier is not the same as "easy". Lower income people underestimate how easy it is to increase spending as your income rises.
The big thing that's killing the middle class that get scant media attention is that today we have a 40% out of wedlock birth rate. This is a disaster, financially, and in a lot of other ways. If we had the same out of wedlock birth rate as we did in 1980, we would have a lot less poverty and we'd have more people in the middle class.
The banks love it !
A 20 year mortgage once was the standard and then it became a 30 year. Car loans used to be 3 years and now 5 to 7 years are becoming normal.
It's getting harder and harder to own anything outright.
Pretty soon it will be all about leases and rents being paid to the "Lords of the Manors" as you'll never be able to escape the economic bondage.
Is the same BS as other things that people say to push the idea that "Poor people choose to be poor"
Just like the popular saying "Pull yourself by the bootstraps" .... which is hilarious because it doesn't make any sense.
"I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the Empire,... The man that controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire. And I control the money supply"
Baron Nathan Mayer Rothschild, of the Rothschild international banking cartel
"From reading the posts, perhaps, the first thing to do, in order to come up with a solution, is identify exactly what "income inequity" is.
In 1960, the average income for semi-professional and non-professional jobs was $7060 a year. In 2010, the average income for those same jobs was $45,406. (source of information is athttp://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article...=JS_2146_home1) And, from another source,. the 2010 figure is about 25% too high. Unfortunately, I do not have the link to the other source.
According to another source, http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article...=JS_2146_home1 executive income has gone up six times in just the last twenty years. Another words, an exec that is making $360,000 today, was only making $60,000 twenty years ago.
It says that executive pay went up an average of 30% each year for the last twenty years while middle-class America has only gotten an average of 12% each year for the last fifty years. And, we're not including bonuses or "Golden Parachutes".
One more area to look at, and this is from my own experience. In 1965 and 1966, I was making $8,000 a year. I was also paying 17 cents a gallon for gasoline. Just today, the current price of gasoline at the corner gas station at the corner is $3.599. To maintain the ratio between income and the cost of gasoline, today's average income should be about $170,000 a year.
In 1973, I was making $14,000 a year, and paying $51 every six months for car insurance. (And, supporting a wife and two kids, while buying a house for $10,000) The last premium I paid on car insurance came out to $147 a month. Back in 1973, the monthly cost was just $8.50. To maintain the ratio of income to car insurance premiums, today's average income should be about$240,000 a year. Want to check with IRS and see just how many "Average Americans" are actually making that much? And, the story is the same no matter what area of expense you look at, groceries, utilities, housing, etc.
That is what is "INCOME INEQUITY". What to do about it is the "$64,000 question". Solutions are sure to be as varied as the people that offer them, but now, you should be able to come up with a better informed opinion.
Now, with regard to the quote, by all means, give your kids every advantage you can. Stress education. Any kind of court record will hurt their chances for a successful career. But, keep in mind...
Let's say that 99% of the next generation gets a master's degree. (No, I don't think that's realistic) It's also not realistic to think that every one of them will get jobs where they will use that degree. There will be a number of them serving at Pizza Hut. A good education and a clean record does not give them a guarantee, but it does improve their chances at a comfortable life." (end quote)
Congratulations the_windwalker, you've earned a spot on my anecdotes collection that's meant to show in a very concrete way the wage stagflation or really deflation experienced for the bottom 80-90 percent of workers the last 30-40 years. I submit only the top 1- 20% percent of wage earners has kept up with cost inflation. That's 2 in 10 workers, certainly NOT middle class, and I think 20% is pushing it. More like the top 10%.
Keep in mind when you read these anecdotes and watch Dr. Warren's lecture think RATIOS. That's exactly my point. For example: "In 1973, I was making $14,000 a year, and paying $51 every six months for car insurance. (And, supporting a wife and two kids, while buying a house for $10,000). How many people now make 40% more IN ONE YEAR than the value of their HOME!!!!: cool::thi nk: GuyNTexas' anecdote illustrates this point very well also.
just because SALARIES haven't kept up with INFLATION doesn't mean we should still CLASSIFY based on 1955/1965 numbers.......average salary in 1966..6900...median house price 14k....about 50% right...use those numbers compared to the median house....the median salary SHOULD be 130k...not 50k
sorry but this is not 1955 , when 250k was rich...please get with the times...its 2010"(end quote)
"The "inequity" comes in where the expenses have out-paced the income for the average American. While EVERYTHING ELSE has gone up, income for the "middle-class" has stagnated over the last fifty years. That is the problem with the economy today. The "middle-class", the MAJORITY of Americans do not have enough money to keep the economy flowing. Inequity = DIS-PROPORTIONATE".
Show me just one exec whose decisions are actually worth a million dollars a day. Even just a thousand dollars a day. Think about it. As great as he was, even Steve Jobs is now replaced. And, as great as he was for the company, he was not that great for America. Look where your Apple product is made. American jobs?
Ever hear of "The Law of Diminishing Returns"? Keep raising your prices, and eventually, you'll price yourself out of business. That is what Corporate America has done. They have priced the economy out of business.
Take a look at the cost of a kit to put a motor on a bicycle. A 50 CC kit has gone up nearly $100 because of the demand. They're replacing cars with motorized bicycles and scooters. And, the auto industry isn't doing as well as they were ten years ago.
If a cashier is being paid exactly what they are worth, then we're paying far more for everything than it's worth. Gasoline isn't worth $3.599 a gallon. Why are we paying that much? Car insurance is not worth what we're paying. Why are we paying it?"(end quote)
Without further ado here's the rest of the collection. In my opinion no one who is honest, can think critically and do math can deny what's contained herein:
Pay close attention to the years in the following posts of people who lived in the mid 70's-early 80's:
"Sad. I made $9 an hour during the Summer break in the mid 1980s running telephone lines in office buildings. It was a horrible low paying job then. You know what $9 is worth today adjusted for inflation since 1985. $4.42 cents. That same job today would be need to pay $18.50 per hour. If you have no perspective on how things suck..you'll settle for anything. The USA will look like these ghettos in Brazil before people wake up to this right wing propaganda they've been spoon fed for 30 years."(end quote)
"You know what $9 is worth today adjusted for inflation since 1985. $4.42 cents."
"Just because things were better, doesn't mean they were great. I don't deny that there were folks like yourself. Nevertheless, more opportunity (on average) did exist back then.
During college I worked part time at a warehouse. One of my co workers was a Guyanese who came into the US illegally in '77 or '78 (he later received amnesty under Reagan). He used to tell me how his first job, as an illegal, paid $10.50/hour. In 2006, after he was laid off from a warehouse making 33/hour, we were working for $12/hr. $10.50 in '78 or 12 in 2006. Inflation much?"(end quote)
"Also the wages aren't there and if you compare that with inflation it just doesn't work.
In 1980, I had an entry level job as a sound engineer with a local independent TV station earning $5.00 per hour.One paycheck paid my rent and utilities and auto insurance and the other 3 paycheckseach month were disposable income.
An entry level job today pays $8.50 to $10 per hour and even at $10 per hour it takes 2 paychecks to cover the cost of rent, utilities and auto insurance (and don't forget in 1980 $10 -- or two hours of work -- paid for 2 tickets to the cinema show, a tank full of gasoline and something to eat after the movie -- the cost of two movie tickets now is over $20)."
(end quote)
"The guy is a typical, narrow minded moron who probably has a picture of Reagan on his wall and NOBAMA stickers on his car. He really thinks in this world, with gas being $3.50 per gallon and food twice what it was 5 years ago that $8.50 per hour is "competitive" How friggin stupid can anyone be? I was making more than that in 1981 in a part time job. I started out at $14.00 per hour in 1984 when I bought my first house for $42,000!
He has NO RESPECT for his employees. None.(end quote)
"No. I'm really disagreeing with .. not missing your point. And those numbers don't tell a very accurate story, and the proof is demonstrated by the drop in net worth of middle income earners as their debt has increased significantly, while earnings have declined relative to inflation.
By most measurable data points, the middle income class has been dying a very slow, incremental death for 4 decades because the costs on high ticket items have increased more rapidly than the either the inflation rate or rates of increases in income. To further compound the problem, average income levels have failed to keep pace with the inflation rate itself. Much of this goes unnoticed because of it's slow incremental nature (like growing old). But if you are old enough, and still maintain your mental faculties, you can't be bull $hted into believing what you are trying to say here.
As just one example, in 1977, I bought a brand new Pontiac Trans Am for $5200. And since it was my first car purchase, I suspect I was clubbed like a baby seal (paid full MSRP), as I simply asked how much, and said OK (later I learned the error of this way to purchase automobiles )
Now today, that car is no longer available, but a comparable car "Chevy Camero SS" is. And a similarly configured model is around $35,000 MSRP. Which is almost double the adjusted for inflation number of $18,700 that Camero should cost relative to the $5200 Trans Am of 1977.
My income back then was 14,000 or just shy of 3 times what the car cost ... if you apply that same formula to the $35,000 Camero today, I'd have to earn roughly $100,000 per year to maintain the same standard (drive the same car) as my $14,000 income provided then. I was not wealthy then .. I was a 20 year oldworking in a warehouse driving a forklift. And I don't think there are many 6 figure forklift drivers around today ...I would say, the 40-50K range would be the upper limit ... or roughly the same as my $14,000 would be, adjusted for inflation.
This is one example, and almost any big item ... car, house, etc. works out to be the same. Some other items like Healthcare have dramatically exceeded those rates exponentially compared to 1977 where mine was absolutely free and first rate, including dental.
Now, add to this the higher taxes, social security withholding, and medicare ... all of which have exceeded the inflation rate (and don't let anyone BS you into believing it hasn't), means that the net spending power of your income has declined dramatically over the past 30+ years. (See video below she documents ALL this IN DETAIL)
Now around about that same time frame, my step father worked for one of the US Government agencies earning roughly in the 50-60K range, and at the time, that was very good money, but not even close to RICH & Wealthy .... but adjusted for inflation, that comes out to around $200+K now. The house he purchased then at $50,000 appraised for $480,000 in 2004-5 even though the adjusted for inflation value would have only dictated a $155,000 figure ... 3 times the inflation rate!! By the time he retired in the late 90's, his income may have doubled, yet his house increased by 6-8 fold. What does that tell you?
Now if you are following me here ... this is where it gets real hairy ... if you take a Quarter ... 25 cents ... from say 1964 (the last 90% silver Quarter) that 25 cents equates to $1.76 in 2010 value. But guess what? Today's melt value of that sliver quarter is about $3.70 which is again more than double the published inflation rate ....
So what does that all mean? It means very simply, that the value of your money is worth about half of what it's claimed to be worth, even after being adjusted for inflation .... and all it takes is to actually look at the historical costs of items like cars, and houses and health care costs from the late 60's to today, and also the median incomes. You see that the purchasing power has indeed declined. And this is a result of the devaluation of the currency (a hidden tax).
So when it comes to buying power, there has been a continuous decline that doubles the the inflation rates admitted .. which is why the middle class really doesn't exist for all practical purposes today.
There are the ultra wealthy, and the rest. The $250kers are just at the higher end of that rest of us, and they are the last of the upper middle class, and the next in line to fall ... apparently, much to delight of many who think that they are members of the Wealthy Club, and must fall for the sake of everyone.
I suppose this proves that indeed, misery loves company."(end quote)
"Which is ... I might add .... $17/hr is roughly $6 per hour in 1980 dollars adjusted for inflation, or $12,000 per year. Though that doesn't quite tell the whole story, since there are many costs that have increased way more than 3 fold, which makes me question the inflation calculations today.
For example, a brand new 1980 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 cost about $6,500 in 1980, while a 2013 Camaro SS Coupe runs close to $40,000 ... which is double the calculated inflation rate .... so a person buying a new camaro back then who was making $10/hr in 1980, would have to make $60/hr today, to be in the same financial situation.
That's just one example of many .... my regular bills back then were ... $12 phone, $25 electricity, no cable, no internet, no cell phone .... and rent was $250. My total living expenses (living alone) was less than $300 .. and food costs were about $20 per week, give or take. Gas was about .65 - .75 cents per gal as were cigarettes about .75 .... and you could get a beer in a bar for .50
I never had to juggle bills .... I lived quite well, drove a brand new car, went out on weekends regularly, never had to deny myself anything, and still managed to stash a couple hundred bucks away in a savings account every month ... on $10/hr
Don't try to live that way today ..... people who have no direct experience of what things were like back then, really have no idea how badly they are "taking it" today. No idea!"
The banks love it ! A 20 year mortgage once was the standard and then it became a 30 year. Car loans used to be 3 years and now 5 to 7 years are becoming normal. It's getting harder and harder to own anything outright. Pretty soon it will be all about leases and rents being paid to the "Lords of the Manors" as you'll never be able to escape the economic bondage.
Yep, I remember when I got my first new car years ago and got a 5 year loan to pay it off. Well, I was talking to this guy who's deceased and he asked me about my car being my first and all and then he told me he remembers his first new car which was a '55 or 56'? Chevy and then naïve me asked what the payments were on his first new car and he just looked at me bemusedly and chuckled seeing as he had a young, dumb, buck on his hands.
He explained to me that there was virtually no financing on cars then and that if there needed to be exceptions you may get a 3 month to 6 month to one year plan worked out at the most. Most people, the great majority, paid up front for cars and this was true for a lot even in the 70's as you can see from GuyNTexas' story.
And you're right with the mortgages too. 15 year was standard let alone 20.
Bottom line is even if you believe the inflation numbers, and you're naïve if you do, because the government lies about everything. That still does not take into full account the amount of value the currency has lost the past 30-50 years and of course since the founding of the Federal Reserve in 1913. And the closing of the "Gold Window" under President Nixon. My post above, with the videos and GuyNTexas' anecdotes especially try to capture this. The "Downward Class Migration" Video is great also.
What you said in your last sentence is absolutely true. The problem is the great majority of the public are way too dumbed down to see it now.
Living within ones means isn't the righteous path some people make it out to be. At least in today's credit dependent society, probably the largest single group practicing it religiously are homeless, vagrants and drifters living hand to mouth.
I beg to differ. Living within one's means is "the" way to invest the difference and become better off in the future. It's just that few people have the discipline to do it. Secondly, since I'm over 60, I can say that the young 'uns today (not all, but many) are spoiled. We hardly ever ate out, went and did expensive things, etc. Today it seems to be the norm.
It's pretty simple. You have to live within your means and invest the difference if you want to have decent retirement. If you don't, you won't unless you inherit it or similar.
I beg to differ. Living within one's means is "the" way to invest the difference and become better off in the future. It's just that few people have the discipline to do it. Secondly, since I'm over 60, I can say that the young 'uns today (not all, but many) are spoiled. We hardly ever ate out, went and did expensive things, etc. Today it seems to be the norm.
It's pretty simple. You have to live within your means and invest the difference if you want to have decent retirement. If you don't, you won't unless you inherit it or similar.
Says someone who earned dollars worth 3 to 5 times as much as the young people earn today for the first part of their career.
Heads up, it's not the same people eating out every night and you'd be surprised at the amount of people who don't do "expensive" things.
I live with in my means and I don't feel the pinch at all.
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: cool:
$10.50 in '78 or 12 in 2006. Inflation much?"(end quote)
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