A NY'er visiting Philly.... (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: credit card, universities, wages)

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by kyb01

I was in DC for the first time in a year yesterday. Sure all the cranes look impressive, but the stuff being built is some of the ugliest structures I've ever seen. Boring. Lack-luster. No style. Eh..... The height limits do not help but there is no inventiveness at all in any of the buildings I saw.

That's interesting - I guess it all comes down to a matter of opinion. I'm not a fan of modern architecture at all. But I tend to like the prefer the mid-rise buildings of DC, along with their proper street walls creating enclosed blocks, to the skinny towers on a parking podium (or attached garage) apartment buildings of Philadephia, each striving for their own individual monumentalism without incorporating any actual ornamentation or design that would actually make them interesting on their own, absent of the city around them.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

That's interesting - I guess it all comes down to a matter of opinion. I'm not a fan of modern architecture at all. But I tend to like the prefer the mid-rise buildings of DC, along with their proper street walls creating enclosed blocks, to the skinny towers on a parking podium (or attached garage) apartment buildings of Philadephia, each striving for their own individual monumentalism without incorporating any actual ornamentation or design that would actually make them interesting on their own, absent of the city around them.

Unfortunately, most of the new construction in DC seems to be dominated by a few big-time developers (e.g., Bozzuto), which tends to lead to little variation in urban design. While many of the projects look fine and do incorporate good basic design standards, you will rarely see anything that's particularly creative or high design. It's extremely corporate and all follows a very similar template with only slight differences in pattern and materials. This does lend to very often predictable, and as kyb0q notes, boring design.

Although certainly some of the small-time developers in Philly could definitely improve their design standards, Philly is already embracing some very forward-thinking, exciting design. Again, not perfect in every case, but the city has shown it can welcome developers and architects of all types, as it's not only accessible to major national firms. This is particularly a great sign as the city is frankly still relatively early in its gentrification/revitalization phase.

Also, the narrow lots that Philly is so well-known for is precisely what encourages more "fine-grained urbanism" and produces buildings of greater height--both very important features of vibrant cities.

[rotodome]

I actually don't think that tall buildings have any relation to cities' vibrancy. There are many examples of very vibrant global level cities which are not characterized by tall buildings.
IMO tall buildings have tended to create a "sameness" in modern cities, which is IMO kind of a bummer.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by rotodome

I actually don't think that tall buildings have any relation to cities' vibrancy. There are many examples of very vibrant global level cities which are not characterized by tall buildings.
IMO tall buildings have tended to create a "sameness" in modern cities, which is IMO kind of a bummer.

Every city aspires to have tall buildings, many times to their detriment, as most cities have no other way to get to the tall buildings besides driving. Even here in Philly where we do have other means of transportation, most large scale projects, especially residential have large scale parking along with them. If you want to compare vibrancy (or potential vibrancy), compare the 100 block of South 8th Street to the 200 block. One has a dazzling array of storefronts, the other has parking garage entrances.

Not that I'm inherently a fan of DC's buildings either, or that these superblock type midrises aren't a symptom of the same problem that create the highrises - but given that architecture is fairly dull these days, or fashionable at best (the notable thing about fashion being that it quickly goes out of fashion) having a solid row of buildings that interact with each other, acknowledge each others existence, and provide a type of visual orderliness, by defining space, to go along with the inherent chaotic undertones of a large city, can be a valuable thing. In fact, it's how the vast majority of Philadelphia's more vibrant places actually work. It's actually how much of New York works as well, as deceiving as that skyline is.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by MB1562

How? Philadelphia does not have the high-paying jobs base that those other three cities do. That is a fact, and doesn't mean Philadelphia is any less than those other three cities, but it can't attract top people when the jobs they need aren't as readily available here.

So does that mean Childrens Hospital of Philadelphia, University of Pennsylvania Hospital, Jefferson, Hahnemann, Temple University Hospital, Comcast, Drexel, UPenn, Temple, some of the worlds largest Law Firms, Aramark, FMC, Urban Outifitters etc etc. attract sub-par talent?

Last I checked those are among the best/largest hospitals and companies in the world.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

That's interesting - I guess it all comes down to a matter of opinion. I'm not a fan of modern architecture at all. But I tend to like the prefer the mid-rise buildings of DC, along with their proper street walls creating enclosed blocks, to the skinny towers on a parking podium (or attached garage) apartment buildings of Philadephia, each striving for their own individual monumentalism without incorporating any actual ornamentation or design that would actually make them interesting on their own, absent of the city around them.

To each his own. I find so much of the new stuff in DC to be absolutely mind-numbing so much so that it made me think, "Thank goodness I don't have to look at it daily".

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

So does that mean Childrens Hospital of Philadelphia, University of Pennsylvania Hospital, Jefferson, Hahnemann, Temple University Hospital, Comcast, Drexel, UPenn, Temple, some of the worlds largest Law Firms, Aramark, FMC, Urban Outifitters etc etc. attract sub-par talent?

Last I checked those are among the best/largest hospitals and companies in the world.

I know you know this but the more correct, and complete, way of defining HUP's power is to include all of its sister institutions within its umbrella name: Penn Medicine. HUP, Pennsylvania Hospital, Penn Presbyterian and the Perelman School of Medicine.

I also have to take issue with that poster's idea that attracting top talent to Philadelphia doesn't include the arts. For a long time, and still probably true to many people, the Philadelphia Orchestra was the only world class institution in the area.

[Leps12]

Originally Posted by cpomp

So does that mean Childrens Hospital of Philadelphia, University of Pennsylvania Hospital, Jefferson, Hahnemann, Temple University Hospital, Comcast, Drexel, UPenn, Temple, some of the worlds largest Law Firms, Aramark, FMC, Urban Outifitters etc etc. attract sub-par talent?

Last I checked those are among the best/largest hospitals and companies in the world.

It's a bit of semantics here, but what should really be said is that Philly does not have AS MANY of these kinds of jobs. Of course, there are high paying jobs, but let's take a look at the list your provided above.

Lots of what you said are "Meds and Eds", and the fact of the matter is practically EVERY major city except for a few is strong in these areas. And when referring to the Northeast, Boston, NYC, and D.C. are equally stacked as Philly, if not moreso. Do we really need to talk about NYC and Columbia, Cornell Medical, NYU, Fordham, St. John's, etc...and don't even get me started on Boston and BC, BU, Northeastern, Harvard, MIT, UMass, and a ton others. DC- American, Georgetown, George Washington, you get the point. Meds and Eds is not anything that Philly has and other place's don't.

Law firms, same deal. They are everywhere. Nothing that Philly does more of or better at.

Let's get down to the point of what we really mean. Philly does not compete well in FINANCE with NYC and even Boston. And it does not have the governmental positions that DC has. These are high paying jobs that exist in the other Northeastern cities that are not found to a comparable degree in Philly. And before you post a couple of examples of financial firms located in Philly, know that, again, we are talking about the sheer magnitude of jobs, not whether some companies exist or not. Philly simply gets overshadowed in finance.

Is it "right" or "fair" that NYC and Boston "hog" the majority of the high-paying finance and banking jobs? That's debatable, but what's not debatable is that it's just the way it is.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by Leps12

It's a bit of semantics here, but what should really be said is that Philly does not have AS MANY of these kinds of jobs. Of course, there are high paying jobs, but let's take a look at the list your provided above.

Lots of what you said are "Meds and Eds", and the fact of the matter is practically EVERY major city except for a few is strong in these areas. And when referring to the Northeast, Boston, NYC, and D.C. are equally stacked as Philly, if not moreso. Do we really need to talk about NYC and Columbia, Cornell Medical, NYU, Fordham, St. John's, etc...and don't even get me started on Boston and BC, BU, Northeastern, Harvard, MIT, UMass, and a ton others. DC- American, Georgetown, George Washington, you get the point. Meds and Eds is not anything that Philly has and other place's don't.

Law firms, same deal. They are everywhere. Nothing that Philly does more of or better at.

Let's get down to the point of what we really mean. Philly does not compete well in FINANCE with NYC and even Boston. And it does not have the governmental positions that DC has. These are high paying jobs that exist in the other Northeastern cities that are not found to a comparable degree in Philly. And before you post a couple of examples of financial firms located in Philly, know that, again, we are talking about the sheer magnitude of jobs, not whether some companies exist or not. Philly simply gets overshadowed in finance.

Is it "right" or "fair" that NYC and Boston "hog" the majority of the high-paying finance and banking jobs? That's debatable, but what's not debatable is that it's just the way it is.

You are turning this into a competition whose **** is bigger.

A poster basically stated that Philadelphia doesn't attract talent and that every talented person in workforce locates to Boston, DC or NYC over Philadelphia. I don't care if NYC has more financial jobs, I was calling someone out who was talking out of their behind.

The same could be said the other way around, there isn't anything in NYC, Boston and DC that Philadelphia doesn't have. (except some gov't jobs)

[Leps12]

Originally Posted by cpomp

You are turning this into a competition whose **** is bigger.

A poster basically stated that Philadelphia doesn't attract talent and that every talented person in workforce locates to Boston, DC or NYC over Philadelphia. I don't care if NYC has more financial jobs, I was calling someone out who was talking out of their behind.

The same could be said the other way around, there isn't anything in NYC, Boston and DC that Philadelphia doesn't have. (except some gov't jobs)

It's not a "Whose dick is bigger" thing. What I'm just clarifying is that I think what the poster had meant was simply, "If you are looking for a well-paying professional job, you might have better prospects in NYC, Boston, or DC than in Philly."

Let me put it this way. I graduated and was looking for jobs. I really tried to find something in the Philly area, and I would say even harder than I did for the NYC area, but ultimately, the first good offer that came along was in the NYC area, so I took it.

He's not talking out of his behind. Again, it's not a matter of who has what and who does not, it's where MORE of it is located. To use an example before from another thread touching on similar matter, Omaha, NE has Berkshire Hathaway headquarters. But is someone graduating from business school going to be looking at Omaha for a job? Unless they are local, most likely not. You play your odds.