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Basically, I've been opposed to paying for anything from a girl my whole life, but living in Thailand for a few years, within such a sexually liberal culture and surrounded by people dabbling in selling sex and buying it whenever the fancy strikes them, it's really changed what I considered black and white to morally grey.
While paying for sex I can see as morally grey if not leaning towards immoral in some countries and circumstances, happy ending massages in this country in these circumstances I find no problem with.
Here's the arguments I thought of as to why it's 'immoral' or 'unethical' or 'bad', and below my reasoning against the aforementioned arguments.
argument 1: it's degrading for them to give a happy ending massage.
-jobs are degrading; i.e. picking up trash is degrading, cleaning up **** is degrading, massaging feet is degrading. in thailand touching the bottom of peoples feet is considered very degrading (i would think more so than touching a penis). most work is inherently degrading. one could argue paying for oral/vaginal sex is degrading, but this is not sex.
-there is no contact beyond their hands on you in this form. there's no penetration or touching of them.
-the difference between them rubbing you everywhere or everywhere except the penis, isn't truly significant by any means. a genuine full body oil massage is already extremely intimate in nature.
-in my personal circumstance, i'm single and in my mid-twenties and ive been told by many thai men and women in many situations that im attractive, so it's likely there will be a bit of attraction; which as conceited as that sounds, is true. i mean i'm not brad pitt, but im pretty decent looking.
-i've read a post from a western girl who enjoyed doing it. judging by the thai's extreme sexually liberal attitudes, its safe to say that many of them enjoy it some level as well.
-prostitution / ping pong shows / ladyboy shows are ridiculously prevalent here, a happy ending in comparison isn't obscene at all.
-my mom had her breasts massaged at a parlour, obviously this is a considered a sexual area but its not considered immoral.
-women i was travelling with were surprised i turned down a happy ending, they said a happy ending isn't a big deal at all, it's just a one-way handjob with no touching. i think any well rounded person would agree it's honestly less intimate than making out with someone.
-if paying someone to make out with you is about the same or more degrading than a happy ending, then wouldn't all actors be engaging in immoral activity in any movie/tv show when kissing on screen?
argument 2: they might feel like they have to do it
-you can do it only if you are offered it, and then tell them it's up to them if they want to or not. in this instance it's not forced at all.
-they are already making money from the massage, so its not a desperation for money. plus there's lots of jobs on this booming island that don't involve happy endings if they want money and don't enjoy doing it.
-many girls i've met occasionally work as bargirls and occasionally regular jobs. there's no desperation in it, it's more of a 'too lazy to work' attitude than anything. this has been backed up by thai girls working regular jobs who get irritated by the prostitutes giving all thai girls a slutty image as they are just too lazy to work in a hotel
argument 3: it's a form of prostitution
-then so is a regular massage. eliciting pleasure by paying them to rub your body doesn't have much contrast with a happy ending aside from ejaculation. and if ejaculation is the answer, then why not get a happy ending for a few minutes and then finish it yourself with no difference?
-there's no penetration = no sex. no sex = no prostitution. there's not even touching from the receiver.
why think it's immoral then?
-western societies weird relationship with sex. ie. sexualizing everything but being afraid to talk openly about it. sex education being more about abstinence than anything else. and the taboo that sex has in our uptight reserved culture.
-the shame and guilt religion has placed on private areas and nakedness and anything beyond marital intercourse
-it's not common practice in western culture.
-it's sleazy.
-it's proximity to prostitution, which can be degrading, and thus argued as immoral. but which can't extend to happy endings for the reasons above.
thus, unless anyone can convince me otherwise with a logical reason why a happy ending is an 'immoral' thing to do, then i will go and partake in it. it seems like this is the right time (being single, young and decent looking still) right place (extreme liberal sexuality) and since i'll be leaving thailand in a while, the only opportunity i'll have to do it as i think these arguments don't extend to north american culture & happy endings as well as they do here.
So much rationalization. You're in Thailand, FFS, dude. Remove the stick from your rectum and enjoy the place to the maximum while you have the chance. You'll be dead for billions of aeons to come and no one will remember that you didn't get a handjob...or worse...back in AD 2013.
Any number of people who go into the massage business have ulterior motives, chiefly to find a wife or husband.
I've been doing massage, both legally and illegally, for some time now, and had long-term relationships with 2 of my clients over the years. it was the happy endings that did it!!!
With your overly-analytical mind, I'm guessing you have a tad too much Virgo in your chart. And? Virgo predominates in the charts of prostitutes!
Mars and Saturn in Virgo here, why let that talent go to waste!!!
1. I'm sure the VAST majority of those girls are younger than you think they are and are not necessarily there by choice.
2. If you're so great, why don't you just find a real Thai girlfriend? A man I know has also been living in Thailand for years and was in a long term relationship with a Thai woman there. They just got married.
1. I'm sure the VAST majority of those girls are younger than you think they are and are not necessarily there by choice.
2. If you're so great, why don't you just find a real Thai girlfriend? A man I know has also been living in Thailand for years and was in a long term relationship with a Thai woman there. They just got married.
I'd like to know what your typical response is to someone in a bad marriage... "You shouldn't have gotten married!" Not everyone is marriage material, not everyone is boyfriend girlfriend material. He already said he isn't staying in thailand so why would he get a girlfriend there?
His whole thread is about how westerners impose on each other and you walk in lol.
This is what I gather from the OP's post: Since he has went to a great deal of thought to make comparisons, etc., he has been thinking about doing it and wanting to do it but felt guilty or that it might be wrong so didn't. Now, after spending quite some time posting, he is hoping to get an OK to go ahead with it. We each must make our own moral decisions and I think we all know what is right or wrong for us thus. And, yes, morals are different there and sadly, these girls, many young, just accept this and most are trying to help with their family's expenses which is viewed as an obligation. To them, this is just a job.
He stated he's been in Thailand for years. While he may be leaving in "awhile," whatever that means, he could have spent those years with a real girlfriend.
Men in all cultures will go through all sorts of intellectual somersaults to justify having sex with someone they shouldn't.
I have to live with myself, and so,
I want to be fit for myself to know;
I want to be able as days go by,
Always to look myself straight in the eye;
I don't want to stand with the setting sun
And hate myself for the things I've done.
I don't want to keep on a closet shelf
A lot of secrets about myself,
And fool myself as I come and go
Into thinking that nobody else will know
The kind of man I really am;
I don't want to dress myself up in sham.
I want to deserve all men's respect;
I want to go out with my head erect.
I don't want to think as I come and go
That I'm bluster and bluff and empty show.
I never can hide myself from me,
I see what others may never see,
I know what others may never know,
I never can fool myself -- and so,
Whatever happens, I want to be
Self-respecting and conscience free.
He stated he's been in Thailand for years. While he may be leaving in "awhile," whatever that means, he could have spent those years with a real girlfriend.
Men in all cultures will go through all sorts of intellectual somersaults to justify having sex with someone they shouldn't.
Annie,
How do you know this? Are you an anthropologist or sociologist who has studied the male sex practices of different cultures?
1. I'm sure the VAST majority of those girls are younger than you think they are and are not necessarily there by choice.
Do you think Americans who work ar WalMart are "thee by choice", and wouldn't rather be somewhere else doing something else, but stock shelves at WalMart for the money, and find it degrading? And who's going to pay for sex with a 50-year-old? Get it when you can.
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...back in AD 2013.
