Reason most people want to leave Phoenix (Tucson, Flagstaff: appointed, foreclosure)

[phxgreenfire]

Originally Posted by jimj

I gotta comment on this After living in NW Montana for years where temps can make Korea look like a sunny paradise. I love the thought that it's easier to get warm than cold
I won't get frostbite that kills skin or limbs/toes/fingers if I'm out in the AZ sun for 10 minutes. The coldest wind here in AZ will never feel like you're standing naked in a blast freezer and I dare you to make a cup of hot coffee freeze between the time you throw it up in the air and it hits the ground! Maybe it'd vaporize from the heat?
When it's -40 with a wind chill of -60 I don't care what you put on you're cold and gonna freeze fast!
I don't have to plug in my car to stop it from freezing up and the oil doesn't turn to the consistency of glue here either.
The best thing, it isn't gloomy,overcast,cold,wet here for 9 months straight. There's plenty of things I have to take issue with here but the weather isn't one of 'em, sorry.

And the OP didn't say she wants to move to a city with that extreme. I just told her MOST cities with real winters aren't that bad. Hopefully I'll be moving within a few weeks... I just need to hear back from a strong job lead. I wouldn't ever move to Montana either. After much thought, I just don't think it has anything I would want out of a home.

Originally Posted by jimj

Thank you!!
I think people who compare 1070 to Hitler/concentration camps have to be lazy for they certainly have NO in depth knowledge of what they speak and are just using someone else's talking points or they wouldn't say it.

If they did have in depth knowledge they'd see that cutting off bennies/shipping back home of people who snuck in to this country is in NO WAY,shape,form or fashion comparable to rounding up whole communities, placing 'em on a train (in cattle cars packed in like tuna) where they get to go stand in an oven or "shower" chambers and are then "eliminated" or skinned and then turned into lampshades.
If this were proposed I and many would stand with them and fight but it's not even close so please don't diminish those millions of lives lost by comparing them to the illegal debate.
sorry, touchy subject...
Off soapbox

Are you a product of Arizona schools? Or are you one of the Fox "News" lemmings? I don't recall saying they're doing exactly what the Nazis did, but there are eerie parallels and I've heard my grandma tell me these stories and... well, also from picking up books and reading them. Seriously... do some independent research. While you're at it, check out Jan Brewer's support BEFORE signing 1070. Okay, I know you won't. She wasn't going to win. I think it makes matters worse that Russell Pearce is Senate President now. Well... feel free to research the stellar job Brewer did in office and have fun with your state.

[Ritchie_az]

Are you a product of Arizona schools? Or are you one of the Fox "News" lemmings?

Apparently they didn't teach about logical fallacies where ever you went to school....

[DisciplesOfTheWatch]

Some of things I'm gonna mention have probably been brought up already in this thread. For that matter, my wording will be different.

Reasons one would want to leave the Phoenix area:

1.) Extremely closed-minded people, regardless of their political persuasion. The so-called "conservative/libertarians" are so passionate about an (often trivial) issue that they don't know when to shut up. While you're talking about something non-political, they'll change the subject and head right back to politics (not sure what they're complaining about, since conservatives have most political clout in AZ.) A lot of them also assume that if you're "white", you'll agree with everything they have to say.

The liberal/progressive bloc of Phx/AZ also have a one track mind, just like their conservative counterparts: Opposing SB1070 and opposing "anti-gay marriage" initiatives is more important than job growth or finding ways to limit vehicle emissions. You know, things that benefit everybody at the end. I used to think that liberal/progressives cared about such issues, now, it's clear that neither side does.

There's no room for a "middle ground mind" in AZ. You either take one side, or you're an outsider, simple as that. People here are not "independent minded" like the national media suggests.

2.) NO CULTURE/SINGLES SCENE, ESPECIALLY FOR THE YOUNGER CROWD. Folks here think Kurt Cobain is still alive, and that the Gin Blossoms or a Roger Clyne-affiliated band is still a "newest latest" trend. People here have a hard time telling the difference between post-grunge /modern radio rock and heavy metal music (or emo/hardcore and heavy metal music). As far as what's abundant, the closest to culture is sports-related and church-related activities. If you like that, you've struck it rich by moving here.

The singles scene is also very weak. Male singles outnumber female singles by a lopsided margin. The guys are not looking for anything serious and want something casual. The gals want a guy who is at least 6'1, a millionaire, and has 2 masters degrees. However, the gals often have their own matters to worry about - children from a past relationship, and/or past meth addiction, and/or extreme obesity and/or untreated psychiatric disorders.

Again, the sane, rationale "middle ground" is left on the side of the road.

3.) WEAK JOB MARKET, NO OPPORTUNITY FOR CAREER ADVANCEMENT. A degree doesn't get you anywhere here. Having a tenured association with a friend or a distant relative does. That's how you're promoted within any field in the Phoenix area. As far as Phoenix-area jobs go circa 11/2010, collections and callcenter are probably the most abundant and well paying. But only if you're willing to earn no more than $12 an hour, are willing to fill out 8 applications, and willing to interview with 4 different people. Oh yeah, and if you get the job, you're willing to stomach the fact that many people didn't have to go through the same process as you because they knew somebody inside. That's right, they didn't have to go through a credit check, criminal background or drug test like you.

What do you think? Does this place sound like fun or what?

[Ritchie_az]

What do you think?

Does this "allow" me to say something positive, or would I be "trolling" again? Should I keep quite that Phoenix had the third largest job growth in the U.S. of A.? Oops!

[DisciplesOfTheWatch]

Originally Posted by Ritchie_az

Should I keep quite that Phoenix had the third largest job growth in the U.S. of A.? Oops!

Kudos for putting had rather than has.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by DisciplesOfTheWatch

Kudos for putting had rather than has.

Actually it's "has". Phoenix is 3rd in nation in job growth from Sep 2009 - Sep 2010. DC was first, then Boston, then Dallas, then good ole Phoenix. Dallas and Phx tied with Boston ahead by a couple hundred jobs. Surprised, huh? Don't believe it? Here ya go:

http://bizjournals.com/louisville/da...t-markets.html

[DisciplesOfTheWatch]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Actually it's "has". Phoenix is 3rd in nation in job growth from Sep 2009 - Sep 2010.

A whopping 1.46%. But does BizJournal also account for jobs lost within the allotted time frame?

News stories often don't tell 'ya the whole story.

[Ritchie_az]

I used the word "had" because the data ended September 30th, and it's now November.

Phoenix 3rd in September job gains | Phoenix Business Journal

Some October news:

Small biz gains jobs in October | Phoenix Business Journal

A whopping 1.46%.

Well, considering many cities had a similar number but with a "-" in front of it, the number is "whopping".

But does BizJournal also account for jobs lost within the allotted time frame?

Yes.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by DisciplesOfTheWatch

A whopping 1.46%. But does BizJournal also account for jobs lost within the allotted time frame?

News stories often don't tell 'ya the whole story.

By percent Phoenix is 8th. You can click the columns to get different sorts. And it's net so, yes, jobs lost is included. The numbers are from Bureau of Labor Statistics released 11/3/2010 not Biz Journal.

I must admit being surprised myself given how bad the job market seems to be around here. It appears it is actually worse in most other cities - something people who want to leave because of job opportunities might take into consideration.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by DisciplesOfTheWatch

1.) Extremely closed-minded people, regardless of their political persuasion. The so-called "conservative/libertarians" are so passionate about an (often trivial) issue that they don't know when to shut up. While you're talking about something non-political, they'll change the subject and head right back to politics (not sure what they're complaining about, since conservatives have most political clout in AZ.) A lot of them also assume that if you're "white", you'll agree with everything they have to say.

The liberal/progressive bloc of Phx/AZ also have a one track mind, just like their conservative counterparts: Opposing SB1070 and opposing "anti-gay marriage" initiatives is more important than job growth or finding ways to limit vehicle emissions. You know, things that benefit everybody at the end. I used to think that liberal/progressives cared about such issues, now, it's clear that neither side does.

You're correct that job growth should be a priority ... and not just the service jobs that pay $12 per hour maximum. I've said for a long time that Phoenix needs to grow up and act its size. One of the problems is that many people here still have this backward notion that we can keep heading down the same old path, and attract mostly retirees, sunshine/warm weather lovers, and snowbirds as our chief economic base. Maybe if this were still 1970 we could get by with that, but not in 2010! A city/metro area this size needs to be not only a major career market on the regional level, but on the national & global scale as well.

With that said, however, I admit to being one of the conservative Libertarians you mentioned. I don't really understand what you mean by them being passionate over "trivial issues". Please offer some specifics.

Originally Posted by DisciplesOfTheWatch

2.) NO CULTURE/SINGLES SCENE, ESPECIALLY FOR THE YOUNGER CROWD. Folks here think Kurt Cobain is still alive, and that the Gin Blossoms or a Roger Clyne-affiliated band is still a "newest latest" trend. People here have a hard time telling the difference between post-grunge /modern radio rock and heavy metal music (or emo/hardcore and heavy metal music). As far as what's abundant, the closest to culture is sports-related and church-related activities. If you like that, you've struck it rich by moving here.

This is where I disagree somewhat. There are actually quite a few things to find as far as nightlife & culture. The problem is very little of that is centrally located ... there is a scattering of it in parts of Phoenix, but it's more known in places like downtown Tempe or Scottsdale. Even the professional sports teams are scattered between downtown Phoenix and the Westgate area of Glendale.

Originally Posted by DisciplesOfTheWatch

3.) WEAK JOB MARKET, NO OPPORTUNITY FOR CAREER ADVANCEMENT. A degree doesn't get you anywhere here. Having a tenured association with a friend or a distant relative does. That's how you're promoted within any field in the Phoenix area. As far as Phoenix-area jobs go circa 11/2010, collections and callcenter are probably the most abundant and well paying. But only if you're willing to earn no more than $12 an hour, are willing to fill out 8 applications, and willing to interview with 4 different people. Oh yeah, and if you get the job, you're willing to stomach the fact that many people didn't have to go through the same process as you because they knew somebody inside. That's right, they didn't have to go through a credit check, criminal background or drug test like you.

What do you think? Does this place sound like fun or what?

This is a bit exaggerated. I for one have a college degree, and have been able to advance in my career without having to be a friend or relative of somebody in the company. Admittedly, it does help to network and get to know the people in the higher positions, as well as those in your field who have the same goals. That's not just limited to Phoenix ... that's reality all over, regardless of where you work. I think most of us hate corporate politics, but being openly mad and vocal about it certainly won't get you anywhere.

Still, I think it comes back to the general notion that the Phoenix metro area is rather lacking in reputable firms that offer competitive wages. Again, the blame can be put on the folks that move here with little or no ambition except to soak in the sun, gawk at the mountains, play golf, or retire. Over and over, we hear about how wonderful the weather is here from November to May ... but does a nice climate for six or seven months bring in a skilled workforce, entrepreneurs, or educated people??? No, it doesn't, and that's why we as a city need to seriously change our priorities ... otherwise, we will continue to have a negative reputation of being just a small city with a large population.