Top 10 reasons not to move to PHX (Phoenix, Tucson: racist, education)

[Ritchie_az]

Still not what I was looking for, but gives a little more insight:
Tucson ethnic studies spews hatred for America
I'll keep looking....

[EnicAZ]

Ritch,

Good information on this study. The divisiveness happening is really a distraction for those trying to learn.

[phxgreenfire]

Originally Posted by Ritchie_az

Still not what I was looking for, but gives a little more insight:
Tucson ethnic studies spews hatred for America
I'll keep looking....

Congratulations! Two opinion-based articles in a row! Now... can you find an actual syllabus, reading list or curricular information on these programs?

[Ritchie_az]

Originally Posted by phxgreenfire

Congratulations! Two opinion-based articles in a row! Now... can you find an actual syllabus, reading list or curricular information on these programs?

Still looking for the news article where some TUSD teachers talked about the program. It was two or three years ago (I lived in Tucson at the time).
What I can tell you is that 1) many of the classes were not taught by certified teachers, and 2) it taught some things that might be considered radical, anti-American, racist and false.
TUSD was the only district (as far as I know) that had an "Ethnics Study" program. The fact that the state felt it needed to pass a law to stop TUSD from doing the program speaks volumes about it, in my opinion.

When I find the news article I will post it.

[phxgreenfire]

Originally Posted by Ritchie_az

Still looking for the news article where some TUSD teachers talked about the program. It was two or three years ago (I lived in Tucson at the time).
What I can tell you is that 1) many of the classes were not taught by certified teachers, and 2) it taught some things that might be considered radical, anti-American, racist and false.
TUSD was the only district (as far as I know) that had an "Ethnics Study" program. The fact that the state felt it needed to pass a law to stop TUSD from doing the program speaks volumes about it, in my opinion.

When I find the news article I will post it.

Is it "anti-American" or just a different perspective? So far, it sounds to me like people are just getting uppity because they feel their culture is "under attack" and want to pass legislation to try to encourage Latinos to leave.

[Ritchie_az]

Originally Posted by phxgreenfire

Is it "anti-American" or just a different perspective? So far, it sounds to me like people are just getting uppity because they feel their culture is "under attack" and want to pass legislation to try to encourage Latinos to leave.

It says that much of the southwestern U.S. legally belongs to Mexico, that the U.S. stole it from Mexico, and that one day it will belong to Mexico again.

He's a quote from one of the textbooks:

"We will now see the real forces behind this so-called 'manifest destiny.' We will see how half of Mexico was ripped off by trickery and violence. We will see how Chicanos became a colonized people. In the process of being colonized, we were robbed of land and other resources. We were murdered and lynched . . . "

It's very much an "anti-white", "anti-American" look at History, and the TUSD teachers that spoke out against it said it was a false history filled with distortions (I guess that's why certified teachers don't teach the class, but La Raza members instead).

I guess you could say that it is a "different perspective". So is the
Iran "perspective" that the holocaust never happened. Whatever.

I suggest researching it yourself since you seem to have so much interest. Tucson is not far away.

[kdog]

Originally Posted by phxgreenfire

Nice straw man argument!

While I don't intend to have children... if I did I would raise them to try to understand language better. Please clarify accents, would you? Does this mean the Western-US hard accent only? Does this mean you are not privileged to work in the lucrative Arizona education industry if you have any of the following accents of English: Oxford, Scouse, Strine, Cockney, Mancunian, Boston, Bronx, Long Island, Inland North American, North Central American, South Asian, Kiwi, Pidgin, Jamaican Patois, Baltimorese, Cajun, Ebonics, Glaswegian, Hiberno, Polari, etc.

Sorry... you really do need to clarify, as speakers of any of those dialects grow up with English as a first language and learn it from people around them. Anyone speaking any of those dialects would recognize an "accent" in a speaker of another dialect.

What part of HARD TO UNDERSTAND ACCENT don't you understand?

I couldn't care less if they have a Martian accent as long as they can be understood and use proper English grammar. And that is precisely what the new education policy states, no more, no less. It's time to drop the race card, as it's tired and worn out.

[twiggy]

Wow, this threads changed a lot from it's birth, it looks like it has become perm. thread. xd

I don't have an issue with the language issue, I know several languages, I think everyone would benefit from knowing more than one, including the ones here learning english from somewhere else, I know some spanish and the accents don't usually bother me, I like them.
There are a lot of people who aren't bothered by it, thank God you don't live in L.A. or NYC or Boston for that matter, it would drive you crazy! LOL There are a lot more to decipher, a big mix. Comes with being a border state and the 5th largest city I believe. We aren't a small town, so, you're going to get people who don't speak english, or are in the process of learning it, until they do it will be hard to understand. Try to enjoy it a little, it's at least something different, it can be interesting to learn a little spanish and have a conversation. This is America, we don't really need to worry about "fitting in " so much here, isn't that the point? A melting pot? They will learn english eventually, with a little help they would learn it a little sooner.

As far as the history lesson, I think what took place in that regard would be in the eye of the beholder. Teaching both perspectives would be nice actually, as with many other skewed historical events, ever aspect is different depending on the side of the event. Like the civil war for instance, it would be nice to teach a rounded perspective of these events in many cases.

[phxgreenfire]

Originally Posted by Ritchie_az

It says that much of the southwestern U.S. legally belongs to Mexico, that the U.S. stole it from Mexico, and that one day it will belong to Mexico again.

He's a quote from one of the textbooks:


It's very much an "anti-white", "anti-American" look at History, and the TUSD teachers that spoke out against it said it was a false history filled with distortions (I guess that's why certified teachers don't teach the class, but La Raza members instead).

I guess you could say that it is a "different perspective". So is the
Iran "perspective" that the holocaust never happened. Whatever.

I suggest researching it yourself since you seem to have so much interest. Tucson is not far away.

I guess I just can't accept it as fact until there's concrete evidence saying otherwise.

Originally Posted by kdog

What part of HARD TO UNDERSTAND ACCENT don't you understand?

I couldn't care less if they have a Martian accent as long as they can be understood and use proper English grammar. And that is precisely what the new education policy states, no more, no less. It's time to drop the race card, as it's tired and worn out.

Well, the law doesn't specify an accent... which seems a bit paradoxical. Maybe I have a better time understanding accents than you and I see that as subjective. Arguably, that would even disqualify anyone with a lisp, idiolect or rasp. Not to mention, most of what you learn in an English class is reading and writing, which is far different from spoken English; i.e. dialects and colloquialism. Mark Twain and Lois-Ann Yamanaka had/have a mastery of the English language and both had/have accents, Southern and Pidgin respectively. I don't even see how the "race card" plays into this argument, as there are plenty of white speakers with accents that could be "hard to understand." In any case, you haven't defined a "hard to understand" accent. If I were to have a kid, I wouldn't care what the teacher's accent is as long as he/she could teach and EXPLAIN why rules in English are the way they are so the kid knows.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by phxgreenfire

Is it "anti-American" or just a different perspective? So far, it sounds to me like people are just getting uppity because they feel their culture is "under attack" and want to pass legislation to try to encourage Latinos to leave.

FWIW, I agree with you partially on this. Part of this legislation restricting ethnic studies was unneeded and mean-spirited. Tom Horne pushed it mostly to burnish his credentials as a illegal alien tough guy in his run for Attorney General. As for people who can't properly speak English not teaching English, I do support that idea. It is important that people learning the language hear it spoken properly, I believe. Thick, heavy accents and improper grammar in an English teacher will translate to a more poorly educated pupil. We don't want that. Why do you suppose they hire so many native English speakers for overseas schools. It is critical to learn proper pronunciation, idiomatic speech, and grammar and native speakers do all of that better (well maybe not grammar).