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Wow I didn't realize Phoenix is so racist. Remind me not to live there. Wasn't like I was ever going to.
It's not. People blow hot air on here all the time. Your home city and especially nearby Houston are more racist than here.
Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
Super, and just where are the jobs to support all these people?
There are jobs. I had an epiphany yesterday: The only people who claim to not have jobs here are those who don't qualify for the jobs that are here.
In other words, if you are in the right professions with the right qualifications, employment is no issue. If not, than employement can very well be an issue. I think it is like that in every city.
The consensus by the 30 local economists and business leaders is that Phoenix's population has not grown since 2007, and may continue to be decline. Our economy, unfortunately, was built almost exclusively on the engine which is taking the worst turn in our current recession.
Um, the "consensus" may be what you said, but the data from the Census Bureau says that Phoenix has continued to grow, just at a slower pace.
"Yeah man, you have a point. A lot of people did move there. And they are staying... heck, they can't afford to leave once they get there. AZ is one of the poorest states in the country. In 2009, AZ was DEAD LAST in wage increases. Of course people are staying... They are broke!
Okay, go ahead and tell me how wonderful it is to live there."
The dead last ranking in wages has been tied to Phoenix losing the highest percent of jobs of any US city since the 2007 recession began. It has been, and continues to be a real source of struggle and the number one thing we need to find a way to overcome.
No. I believe the majority of legal resident hispanics who understand what the bill was (and wasn't) do support 1070. There was quite a bit of misinformation thrown around, especially by Telemundo, CNN and our local newspapers.
All of the Hispanics I know (in my family and at work) support 1070.
Thats great for YOU. Be careful with your blanket.
All of the polls showed that. Somewhere between 52% and 61% (depending on the poll) of Americans support 1070, and between 65% and 70% of Arizonans.
Those who oppose 1070 in the minority.
That depends on the pole I saw several that were more like half, 48% to 51%. http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...na.html?cat=17 If you read this you will see that even though some support it, they are still concerned this could lead to racist views toward hispanics, and I share their opinion.
You said that our politics draw racists, and I say hogwash! You are making broad, sweeping generalizations about people--prejudging people. You are. "If you support 1070, you might be a racist." I could say if you support socialist politics you might be a racist, but I would be wrong. Just like you are wrong with your assertion.
I said our politics draw people who agree with them. Like you said, not all are racist that support the bill but not all are not racist either. Maybe if you get out more and talk to some people you will see where I get it from. There is a relaxed state of racist comments that happened after that bill, understandable because people are angry but maybe you just didn't experience it. Good for you, but that doesn't mean others haven't.
Are you trying to belittle me? I guess I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Do you disagree that your broad sweeping statements are not a sort of prejudging? Do you have facts to back up your statements?
I am making broad statements, I think we will draw more people who agree with our politics, racist or not, thats a given to me, why wouldn't it be? And yes, I was a bit belittling, but you talk as if you don't have a thread career doing just that, you're not a savior of Phoenix, you are a ranter like everyone else. It doesn't make a difference what you rant about, pro Phoenix or not, you are every bit as much of a pain in the butt on here as everyone else.
But, you do make me laugh and for that I am thankful.
That may be true but it DOES NOT make those people racists. You may think they are, based on some sort of preconceived notions, but it does not make it fact.
I hear the ones that are racist everyday, I live out by Sun Lakes and work with the public, they don't hold back. You are lucky you don't. This doesn't make everyone here a racist but I can tell you first hand, there are plenty here and you can't tell who will run into that or not. This doesn't have to do with other states, they have it too! But, we do as well, you will have to accept that fact at some point. It looks like this poster ran into it, sad, but it does happen.
Another thing is that our politics fall in line with people who don't like poor people of color. All states have this view within their population, like MA for instance, I haven't heard the word "darkie" used so much as in MA, and there are plenty of people there that look down on those without jobs, poor, etc. but, their politics don't support it. They have many services for people who are out of work or need assistance.
Also, to undertand this, people are not segregated as much out here, they are blended in. A lot of people are surprised by this when they get here. For example, one guy in the store was remarking, "there's another one", my husband asked what he was talking about, he said "black people, I just saw 3 come in here", then he asked what kind of neighborhood he was in. We laughed and explained that it was all mixed up out here. Locals are use to this but we are mostly transplants out where I am, and believe me, they are not. A lot of them ask why there are still Mexicans out here after the bill. I can do nothing but laugh as it sounds so funny but it is here, and some people are going to run into it and be upset, nothing we can do about that.
I am never offended that someone is unhappy. Happiness is often a choice. Unhappy people tend to be unhappy where ever they are.
Like I've said many, many times now: No place is perfect. Phoenix is not perfect. I never, ever said it was.
Yes, you are! It's in print! And, no, some people are unhappy because they don't fit in with their surroundings. I think it's a ignorant blanket statement to say that unhappiness is something that follows you. Sometimes, but not nearly always. If that were the case all those here who were unhappy with the weather would still be unhappy with ours. Sometimes you are unhappy with your surroundings, and moving can help make you lead a happier life. I feel we are all in control of our happiness, I don't agree that happy people are happy anywhere and unhappy people are unhappy anywhere. That can be the case for some, but not for all.
People move around all the time and try to make some situation in their life better for themselves.
My issue is with people who post all sorts of sweeping generalizations, misinformation, verbal throw-up, troll-like behavior, lies, etc. There is a lot of that in this very thread. That is wrong and arguably against the C-D TOS.
I feel that folks reading this thread and forum should at least know when some bit of nonsense is posted. And there is a lot of nonsense posted here.
Thankfully, there are members on here that put a proper perspective on those posts. Now that we have a Moderator, I'm hoping some will even get deleted.
Then why don't you take your own advice and listen to your 3 fingers. You know, the ones pointing back at you right now.
No one is the judge of proper perspective or nonsense, and I hate to disappoint you but the job of a mod is to keep it civil and on topic, not keep it positive about Phoenix. There are not "teams" on here hon, just people with different opinions and no matter how much you want to argue them for the sake of "readers you think are not smart enough to come to their own conclusions", they can't be argued. That is why they go on and on like the energizer bunny. You are really just blowing on the fire and that only makes it grow. It's why threads like these blow up into monsters. I finally had my own thread closed but cause as hard as I tried I couldn't put out the fire and get it back to a civil discussion. But, it isn't in regards to what the discussion was about, be careful with that you might be disappointed.
Like you said, not all are racist that support the bill but not all are not racist either.
This is stupid. How do you know this? Or are making assupmtions about people you don't know?
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Maybe if you get out more and talk to some people you will see where I get it from.
This is borderline personal. How do you know how much I "get out"? Or are you making assumptions again about people you don't know?
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There is a relaxed state of racist comments that happened after that bill, understandable because people are angry but maybe you just didn't experience it. Good for you, but that doesn't mean others haven't.
Show me some actual examples. I heard a lot of anti-1070 folks claiming racism, but never found examples of actual racism.
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I am making broad statements, I think we will draw more people who agree with our politics, racist or not, thats a given to me, why wouldn't it be?
You originally said "racist" not "racist or not". You are making generalized, broad assumptions about people based on their political leanings.
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I hear the ones that are racist everyday, I live out by Sun Lakes and work with the public, they don't hold back. You are lucky you don't. This doesn't make everyone here a racist but I can tell you first hand, there are plenty here and you can't tell who will run into that or not.
I guess you live in a bad area.
I've never heard one racist comment by anyone I've met here. That's not saying racism doesn't exist, because it exists everywhere, but I have been fortunate to have not experienced it here. When I was in Houston, it was a daily occurence.
Sorry you've experienced it so much. Once is too much, in my opinion.
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Another thing is that our politics fall in line with people who don't like poor people of color.
Do you have examples of this?
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Also, to undertand this, people are not segregated as much out here, they are blended in.
Absolutely. It's one of the things I like about Phoenix. My family is half-hispanic. On my street are white families, hispanic families (other than us), African-American families, an asian family, and an indian (from India) family. There are people of all ages--little kids to the elderly. And we all seem to get along fine and everyone seems pretty neighborly with everyone else.
Granted, this is just my street so this is anectdotel, but this has been my experience every place I've lived in the Phoenix metro.
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No one is the judge of proper perspective or nonsense
Ah, so you would have no problem if I said butt monkeyes fly from house-to-house and eat young children? Or is there a point that someone should say, there's no such thing as butt monkeys, and there are no human-eating monkeys flying from house-to-house? Relativism only goes so far.
Plus, it is part of the Mods job, especially when it comes to troll-like behavior.
This is stupid. How do you know this? Or are making assumptions about people you don't know?
This is borderline personal. How do you know how much I "get out"? Or are you making assumptions again about people you don't know?
Show me some actual examples. I heard a lot of anti-1070 folks claiming racism, but never found examples of actual racism.
You originally said "racist" not "racist or not". You are making generalized, broad assumptions about people based on their political leanings.
I guess you live in a bad area.
I've never heard one racist comment by anyone I've met here. That's not saying racism doesn't exist, because it exists everywhere, but I have been fortunate to have not experienced it here. When I was in Houston, it was a daily occurrence.
Sorry you've experienced it so much. Once is too much, in my opinion.
Do you have examples of this?
Absolutely. It's one of the things I like about Phoenix. My family is half-hispanic. On my street are white families, hispanic families (other than us), African-American families, an asian family, and an indian (from India) family. There are people of all ages--little kids to the elderly. And we all seem to get along fine and everyone seems pretty neighborly with everyone else.
Granted, this is just my street so this is anectdotel, but this has been my experience every place I've lived in the Phoenix metro.
Ah, so you would have no problem if I said butt monkeyes fly from house-to-house and eat young children? Or is there a point that someone should say, there's no such thing as butt monkeys, and there are no human-eating monkeys flying from house-to-house? Relativism only goes so far.
Plus, it is part of the Mods job, especially when it comes to troll-like behavior.
I think we will have to just agree on disagreeing about these issues. Everyone will come to their own conclusions, despite us. I don't want to argue with you. You seem pretty set in your opinion and thats fine with me.
I agree with some of your points actually, it's just so weaved in I can't seem to understand your big picture. I will have to just let it go at that and hope you can do the same. Phoenix is all things depending on who you are in my opinion and could be solved by moving out or in depending on who you are. One thing for sure, I absolutely believe that others will draw their own conclusions not from what we say but by what their opinions are of our actions. It won't matter which way they sway, they are grown ups and have plenty of practice weeding through peoples opinions of what they are after.
I don't think this thread or any other will make much difference in that.
Sorry, I have nothing to add to the "flying butt monkeys" ( presume you mean monkeys, not monkeyes unless this is a new creature?) analogy but again, you've made me have a good laugh and for that I am always thankful!
One thing for sure, I absolutely believe that others will draw their own conclusions not from what we say but by what their opinions are of our actions. It won't matter which way they sway, they are grown ups and have plenty of practice weeding through peoples opinions of what they are after. I don't think this thread or any other will make much difference in that.
One thing I will say is that threads come up all the time with "I read X" (whatever X is) "is it true?" "I keep reading this and that" (whatever this and that are) "is it true?" "I read that and the other" (whatever that and the other are) "now I'm getting nervous, tell me it isn't true!"
People do put at least some stock in what they read on here.
I don't care that someone posts something negative, because, like I said, if you go back and read all my previous posts, you'll find I've posted my fair share of negativity. What I take issue with is posts that mislead, misrepresent, down-right lie, perpetuate myths, paint something as something it's not, over-generalizations, etc. Those kinds of posts give people false information and cause the kinds of threads I mentioned above.
Glad I could give you a laugh. And, yes, I did mean "monkeys" not "monkeyes".
Location: A circle of Hell so insidious, infernal and odious, Dante dared not map it
623 posts, read 1,226,566 times
Reputation: 473
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Originally Posted by Ritchie_az
There are jobs. I had an epiphany yesterday: The only people who claim to not have jobs here are those who don't qualify for the jobs that are here.
In other words, if you are in the right professions with the right qualifications, employment is no issue. If not, than employement can very well be an issue. I think it is like that in every city.
That's not true at all. I qualify for jobs I won't take because they're too counterproductive; i.e. they will work against my work experience in regards to the future. Relevant jobs to me are very rare here and a lot has to do with Phoenix' lack of economic diversity. Case in point, my mom would rather I live closer to family in OKC (though I'm not interested in living there) and out of morbid curiosity I did a job search for relevant jobs there. It has 1/4 the people the Valley does and both post the same number of relevant jobs per week, roughly one. I don't want to take a job here because of the high risks involved as I'm concentrating on leaving.
That's not true at all. I qualify for jobs I won't take because they're too counterproductive; i.e. they will work against my work experience in regards to the future. Relevant jobs to me are very rare here and a lot has to do with Phoenix' lack of economic diversity. Case in point, my mom would rather I live closer to family in OKC (though I'm not interested in living there) and out of morbid curiosity I did a job search for relevant jobs there. It has 1/4 the people the Valley does and both post the same number of relevant jobs per week, roughly one. I don't want to take a job here because of the high risks involved as I'm concentrating on leaving.
The key phrase in your post is "relevant jobs to me". There are tons of job opportunities here that are relevant to the folks who will eventually be hired for them. In other words, for the jobs that are relevant to you, it is either the wrong profession for Phoenix (for example, I could not have done my last job in Phoenix because there are literally zero jobs here in that profession) or you do not have enough qualifications for the relevant jobs within your profession that are here.
It's exactly as I stated it in the post of mine you quoted.
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