Does anyone here lease their solar panels? (Tempe: attorneys, buying)

[raimeiken]

any updates on this topic?

I just recently heard about leasing panels from a friend of mine that are currently getting theirs installed. I was told that they are going to be paying $80/month for a 20 year lease. That's all the info I got. I'm not sure how big the system is that they're getting.

[HX_Guy]

That has to be a pretty small system for that low of a monthly lease payment...numbers I've seen are usually about double that for a decent size system (10kw-11kw).

[Juram]

Originally Posted by raimeiken

any updates on this topic?

I just recently heard about leasing panels from a friend of mine that are currently getting theirs installed. I was told that they are going to be paying $80/month for a 20 year lease. That's all the info I got. I'm not sure how big the system is that they're getting.

Was a good deal a couple years ago when people were saving $50, $60, $70, $80, even $90 a month but now you're signing a 20 agreement to save $5-10 a month and if you ever decide to move, the person buying the home not only has to qualify for the lease credit-wise, but they have to accept whatever new terms or fees that APS has come up with since the day your system was installed. Based on the small amount of actual savings, you might be put in the position of having to buy the lease out just so you can sell your home and not every company allows you to do so due to various tax laws and their interpretation of such.

[HX_Guy]

You can still save $40 - $60 a month even with a lease, at least that's what I calculated on a SunPower lease (I guess they are doing leases directly now)...would be $184/month for a big enough system to cover our whole electricity and our average bill is $240 but I still dont think it's worth it. For a little bit more ($70-ish more per month) you can buy a system and own it in 12 years.

[HX_Guy]

Apparently SunPower has some a new lease promo and you can get a 13.7kW system (producing 22,796 kWh per year) for $167/month or 12.4kW (producing 21,337 kWh per year) for $158. Either of those should be enough to offset most people's electric use 100%...it would for us and would mean we'd save about $65/month or $800/year.

[Juram]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Apparently SunPower has some a new lease promo and you can get a 13.7kW system (producing 22,796 kWh per year) for $167/month or 12.4kW (producing 21,337 kWh per year) for $158. Either of those should be enough to offset most people's electric use 100%...it would for us and would mean we'd save about $65/month or $800/year.

$167 a month is a pretty nice deal for a 13.7kw. That is the best I've seen in a LONG time. Should be about $600-800 savings a year after lease payments.

[PNWGuy]

A 14.4 kw system from solar city was quoted at just under $200/mo, and that was basically break even. The sales guy was trying to sell me on doing it for the "green" effect, you know, save the world kind of thing. Sounds like you have a much better deal, but would rather purchase the unit outright.

[HX_Guy]

I don't know, it is pretty intriguing. The total paid at the end of the 20 year lease on the would be $37,920 vs if you finance purchased with the 2.99% 12 year deals they have, it would be $37,944...freaky how close they are. Of course, with the purchase, you would own the system after paying that much and with the lease you would have to buy at FMV if you wanted to keep it. There is an argument to be made about the whole system being under warranty though, including the 3 inverters which would guaranteed to need replacement during that 20 year span (is that correct?).

[Juram]

Originally Posted by PNWGuy

A 14.4 kw system from solar city was quoted at just under $200/mo, and that was basically break even. The sales guy was trying to sell me on doing it for the "green" effect, you know, save the world kind of thing. Sounds like you have a much better deal, but would rather purchase the unit outright.

The whole "green effect" is still somewhat overrated at this point. The problem is that demand for electricity hits its peak around 7-8PM, at that time, solar systems aren't producing anything. In order to remain capable of handling that demand and maintain grid stability, APS has to keep their power generation systems running throughout.



The key for solar is going to be when better battery and storage technologies are developed. The concentrated solar at Gila Bend as an example uses molten salt as a storage medium but it is still largely cost prohibitive.


However even if viable, affordable storage capabilities are achieved, I wouldn't expect the utility companies to just take it sitting down, the more their business model is threatened, the harder they will fight back until they have to finally adapt their business model the way some utilities in Germany have done by basically leasing solar on rooftops themselves.

[HX_Guy]

I ran some numbers and I have to say it was a bit surprising and quite the eye opener. The lease, in almost all scenarios, actually is more attractive than the purchase...assuming my numbers are correct. Of course the one unknown is the FMV of the system at 20 years, but I used 10% as a guess. I also assumed all 3 inverters would need replaced sometime between year 10 and year 20 @ $1500 each.

Doing a 15 year loan you'd most certainly end up paying more if you lease and then buy at FMV. Compared to a 10 year loan, it's practically the same. The only one that comes up on top is a 5 year loan but it's interesting what that one means monthly payment wise.
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Here's the breakdown monthly. With the lease, of course you start saving from the start to the tune of about $700 per year. Again the 15 year loan makes zero sense as your total savings at 20 years are much less. The 10 year loan is a wash again and the 5 year gives the best savings at 20 years BUT you end up paying an extra $4200/year for the first 5 years compared to our current electric bill, or about $350/month more.
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So I guess that's really the decision...do we want to do a purchase with a 5 year loan and pay it off then reap the benefits, or the 20 year lease. The other two don't make much sense it seems.