Solar Panels - Worth the $$$? (Phoenix, Benson: appointed, appliances, new home)

[NE Live]

Just curious if anyone has installed, or heard stories from friends etc, about whether or not it is worth it to install Solar Panels in Phoenix? Do they really give you a big booster of electricity or are they not really worth the cost? I am just trying to find ways to cut down on my bills once I move there. Thanks!

[joninaz]

Currently they are pretty cost prohibitive for most people. A system for a 3,200 sf house would cost about $40,000. You do get some initial tax rebates but you'll need to live in the house at leat 12+ years before you start to see a return on your initial investment.

That said, there are a number of companies exploring techniques to bring costs down. A company in Colorado recently developed a process that halves the price of panel production... so it might be a much cheaper option in a few years.

There's also a number of other things one can do to reduce power bills in AZ. But those tips will depend on the kind of place you buy.

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Originally Posted by joninaz

Currently they are pretty cost prohibitive for most people. A system for a 3,200 sf house would cost about $40,000. You do get some initial tax rebates but you'll need to live in the house at leat 12+ years before you start to see a return on your initial investment.

That said, there are a number of companies exploring techniques to bring costs down. A company in Colorado recently developed a process that halves the price of panel production... so it might be a much cheaper option in a few years.

There's also a number of other things one can do to reduce power bills in AZ. But those tips will depend on the kind of place you buy.

I work for a medical center in Southern California. One of the questions that some of our Doctors had for us is if we could install solar panals on the roof to reduce cost. We have a lot of roof space to cover in the complex with an 8 story hospital, a 5 story medical office building, 2 two story medical office buildings, and other buildings that we could potentially place the units. For us we cotacted Southern California Edison to see what the pay back would be. We were informed by them that the cost would be prohibitive to proceed. At this time it just isn't worth the cost of the product. I am sure that the electric supplier in Arizona could give you the same kind of information to see what the cost would be and the ROI for the product would be. Many of the power companies recieve government funding when they show you how to save money, so the service won't cost you more than the tax you are allready paying. The deal is for our complex we would need more solar panals than our roof is able to hold to completly switch over from SCE to our own power.

If your concern is cost savings I am telling everyone about increasing the insulation in there homes and installing a radiant shield on the roof that reflects most of the heat away from the home. Cost a lot cheeper that the solar panals and can reduce your cooling cost a significant amount. You can find more information at the U.S. Department of Energy. Look up the area that you will be moving to and they will give you the minumum energy saving requirements and the optimum suggestion on what you can do to reduce your consuption. If you are buying a new home all this is easy to add in. When buying an older home, you may have a lot a lot of work to do. Installing a radiant shield would mean taking the old rood material off. Still cheaper than the solar panals.

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by NE Live

Just curious if anyone has installed, or heard stories from friends etc, about whether or not it is worth it to install Solar Panels in Phoenix? Do they really give you a big booster of electricity or are they not really worth the cost? I am just trying to find ways to cut down on my bills once I move there. Thanks!

A little "off subject" here, NE Live, however . . .

I had 4 SolarTubes installed in my home and converted all of my frequently used lights (both indoors and outside) to fluorescent bulbs and my electric bill dropped by more than 30% . . . I was both surprised and impressed.

Needless to say, the cost was considerably less than Solar Panels.

[mortimer]

joninaz said:

> .... A system for a 3,200 sf house would cost about $40,000.
> ... at leat 12+ years before you start to see a return ...

Solar panels are more of a statement than a real money saver. If you want to save money, figure out how to use less. The ROI happens immediately.

From what other posters have said, APS does not offer time-of-use billing, but SRP does. This is a good way to save roughly 20-30% on your bills by shifting use to off-peak times and rates.

As others have said, insulation is the most important. Pick a house with very efficient windows or plan to put some in yourself.

One problem with putting in solar panels is that they have to work perfectly for twenty years for you to recover your investment. Even then, you might be better off by taking the money you put in the photovoltaic installation and investing it. Use the returns to pay your electric bill. Buying solar power is really the same thing except that your stream of income comes as a reduction in your expenses.

How many things that you purchased five or more years ago still work perfectly today? Can you count on something that complex doing so?

What happens if five years from now, due to better technology, you can buy a solar installation that costs half of what the installation costs today (after taxes, rebates, etc)?

ROI for insulation, windows, better lighting, more efficient appliances, is in the neighborhood of 5-7 years at worst. Also, if you have to sell your house, the buyer who's going to be willing to give you a premium price for all that solar 'stuff' is going to be few and far between. Buyers who come into your house and notice the premium windows will be more enthusiastic about such things.

[LordBalfor]

NE Live -

Yours was a REALLY great question and I thank you for asking it - and the others for responding.

We're not moving down to our retirement property near Benson for at least 5 years, but we're already determined to try and be as energy efficient as we can (within the context of having the features we want) so all such information is very interesting to me.

Ken

[Davidcee]

Originally Posted by LordBalfor

NE Live -

Yours was a REALLY great question and I thank you for asking it - and the others for responding.

We're not moving down to our retirement property near Benson for at least 5 years, but we're already determined to try and be as energy efficient as we can (within the context of having the features we want) so all such information is very interesting to me.

Ken

Ken have u moved down yet? We moved down in may 2011. We checked out solar power. The ROI is estimated to be 4-5 years. We went with the solar electric in Aug & solar water heating in July.

BTW, the people who think they can make money selling the power back to APS are going to be disappointed caus the buy back rate is 4 cents per kwh

[LordBalfor]

Originally Posted by Davidcee

Ken have u moved down yet? We moved down in may 2011. We checked out solar power. The ROI is estimated to be 4-5 years. We went with the solar electric in Aug & solar water heating in July.

BTW, the people who think they can make money selling the power back to APS are going to be disappointed caus the buy back rate is 4 cents per kwh

No, sadly we're stuck here in Seattle for a few more years until the housing situation improves.

Ken

[khuntrevor]

Originally Posted by Davidcee

Ken have u moved down yet? We moved down in may 2011. We checked out solar power. The ROI is estimated to be 4-5 years. We went with the solar electric in Aug & solar water heating in July.

BTW, the people who think they can make money selling the power back to APS are going to be disappointed caus the buy back rate is 4 cents per kwh

I heard the same thing in Colorado--they only pay wholesale rates, when they buy it back. About half of the projects look good, the others......
The project at the VA Hospital looks good. A few thousand carports with solar panels. Solar is coming, but it's not quite here. Some of the utility companies pay over a 5% stock dividend, and it is likely that profits will rise with higher costs. I would do the carport thing at my 66 yo house, but I think a large solar system on top of a tract home could turn it into an unsellable dinosaur in 10 years.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by mortimer

joninaz said:

From what other posters have said, APS does not offer time-of-use billing, but SRP does. This is a good way to save roughly 20-30% on your bills by shifting use to off-peak times and rates.

As others have said, insulation is the most important. Pick a house with very efficient windows or plan to put some in yourself.

Not to nit-pick, but APS does offer time of use billing - I have it myself, and it's very worthwhile for all but the tiniest homes (if your usage is under 1000 kwh per month, a "regular" plan might be cheaper.)

But....
+1 for insulation - massive + instant savings for most homes over 10 years old

+1 for having your ductwork sealed (APS and SRP both have rebate plans to help with the cost, and you could save 15% or more on your heating/cooling bills if your ducts are leaking, and most are).

+1 for retrofitting a "heat-pump" water heater into your home - it's cheaper than solar & actually uses less energy than solar...

+1 for having an APS or SRP approved contractor do an "energy checkup" on your cooling system.. they have rebates for this as well..

Windows, not so much for energy savings - they help with noise and security & help a little with energy usage, but the cost can be prohibitive from an energy standpoint if you pick the wrong contractor. Windows alone aren't going to save you hundreds every month unless your house is huge or your old ones are broken out!