Solar Panels - Worth the $$$? (Phoenix, Tempe: house, buying, construction)

[gritz]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

Windows, not so much for energy savings - they help with noise and security & help a little with energy usage, but the cost can be prohibitive from an energy standpoint if you pick the wrong contractor. Windows alone aren't going to save you hundreds every month unless your house is huge or your old ones are broken out!

Double Low E windows make a HUGE impact.

[Davidcee]

Originally Posted by gritz

Double Low E windows make a HUGE impact.

Several years ago I looked at the low e windows seems like they had a huge cost too. Wonder what the ROI is?

Wonder how much they save on power bill?

[Davidcee]

Originally Posted by LordBalfor

No, sadly we're stuck here in Seattle for a few more years until the housing situation improves.

Ken

We kept thinking about moving to Phoenix area for several years. Have a lovely 3 bedroom, two car garage in downtown Puyallup. But the value had dropped so we didn't want to lose on it. But prices are so down in the Phoenix area we wanted to take advantage of them.

from the hi point it had dropped 30-40k but was still work 100k more than we owed. We had just refinanced it and our payment dropped over $300.

Other things were lined up, stars, moons, retirement, etc.

SO decided to sell & move. Talked to a realtor about selling. He suggested that we consider leasing the home for a year & see where the market went. Also see if we really wanted to live in AZ during the summer.

Well to shorten this up we have a lovely 3 bedroom, 2 car garage, slightly more square foot for $65k. Oh yes & incidental to the property is a "salt play pool" & still have a home in Puyallup WA worth $200k+

Not bragging Ken, just saying if you can swing it don't wait to move to Az.

Feel free to email me direct.

David

[gritz]

The Efficient Windows Collaborative: Window Technologies Here are some break downs on transmission of solar heat.

And here are some cost savings estimations

The Efficient Windows Collaborative: Benefits

That was just from a quick search. Unfortunately I cannot compare before and after because my house has always had double low E.

I have extra insulation, solar and the Dbl Low E and my APS bill was $192 last month for a 3400sf house. APS said the average for the same area and house size was $680. I would call the combo a success.

[_Charles_]

Answer to the OP "NO".

[princesslyka]

Thank you to all for asking my question and answering it with abundant information!!!

[princesslyka]

Originally Posted by Bummer

A little "off subject" here, NE Live, however . . .

I had 4 SolarTubes installed in my home and converted all of my frequently used lights (both indoors and outside) to fluorescent bulbs and my electric bill dropped by more than 30% . . . I was both surprised and impressed.

Needless to say, the cost was considerably less than Solar Panels.

I googled "solar tubes" and found that there are quite a few different ones with different purposes... which one are you using: for heating or for natural light?

Thanks!!

[Davidcee]

Originally Posted by _Charles_

Answer to the OP "NO".

Charles, I would disagree with you. On what do you base your statement?

I base my yes on the hard facts below.

The pay back on our solar panel (for electrical) is around 4 years.
It went online Aug 17th, splitting our electric bill into APS only & APS + Solar.

The APS only was $94 for 9 days >> $10.44/day

The APS + Solar was $115 for 21 days >> $5.48/day

One thing that can save $$$ is taking advantage of the "time advantage" rate plan from APS. One draw back to the "time advantage" plan with solar is how APS handles the credits. e-mail me for details.

BTW don't get all excited about selling excess power to APS cause they only buy back your excess credits once a year @ the huge rate of 4 cents /kWh or less


Another solar product to consider is solar water heating. The power companies give rebates & incentives on both solar power & water heating.


Have a bright sunny power generating day.

[mortimer]

Originally Posted by Davidcee

I base my yes on the hard facts below.

The pay back on our solar panel (for electrical) is around 4 years.
It went online Aug 17th, splitting our electric bill into APS only & APS + Solar.

The APS only was $94 for 9 days >> $10.44/day

The APS + Solar was $115 for 21 days >> $5.48/day

These "hard facts" are not very useful.

In order for them to be hard facts, you would need to show the amount
of kWh used in an average month and the cost per kWh using power from
the grid and using power from the solar/grid combination.

If someone only uses an average of 500 kWh/month, then there is no way a solar installation can possibly have a pay back.
If someone uses an average of 2,000 kWh/month, then solar would probably help quite a bit and they should look into it.

I used an average of 1,092 kWh in the Jan, 2005 to Dec, 2006 period with an average bill
of $82. My highest July bills were 1,921 kWh for $139 and 2,268 for $157. This was a
2,600 sq ft house built in 2000 with all the insulation Maracay could stuff in to the house.

There's no way I'd make a $10k or so investment to reduce an electric bill of $82/month or
$978/year. I have no doubt that it would eventually pay off - the risk/reward doesn't work for me.

I know all these kWh and $$$ numbers above because I collected them just for this analysis
from when I moved in in 2000 to when I moved out at the end of 2007.

OTOH, I had a neighbor in an identical house that insisted on keeping his
house at 72 degrees at all time and regularly had July bills exceeding $500.
He could have probably benefited from a solar installation.

( He, instead, took out a HELOC and spent over $100k on a new Vett and
put lots of toys in it and eventually had his mortgage foreclosed. Nice. )

In order to make the analysis, you need to know the kW output of the panels and the
cost of the panels after all rebates, credits and all those other government subsidies.

Then, you have to calculate how many kWh the panels are likely to generate
both in the cool months of December and January - when the sun is lowest
and then in July and August when the sun is high, and the bills are highest.

Taking that calculation out over ten years should let you know if it's worth it.
I wouldn't trust some web site to tell me whether to spend $10-20k on solar.

Over ten years, I better get back 90% of what I invested or I'm not interested. Of course, that's just me.

As I said earlier, buying a Prius doesn't really save you much money either, but lots
of people buy them to make a statement. I'm all for it. It drives the technology and
reduces the nation's consumption of energy.

For some people, spending an extra $10k on a car or $10-20k on panels isn't a significant amount of
money. OTOH, I drive a 22-year old car worth $1,500 and watch TV on old CRT screens. I'm real cheap.
My $10k investments are put in stocks and bonds and I generally do better than the ROI for solar.

I'll probably wait till there is a spray-on roof coating that has imbedded nano-particles that
align themselves to the Earth's magnetic field - each of them a tiny solar panel. You hook a
wire at one corner and another wire at another corner, and you have solar energy that is robust,
cheap, and easy. I might be dead before such a thing is invented, but that's OK. I'm a real
cheap b@stard and know how to save money without spending a bunch of it on solar panels.
I know how to turn off lights and unplug appliances ... stuff like that.

[Davidcee]

[quote=mortimer;20922061]These "hard facts" are not very useful.

In order for them to be hard facts, you would need to show the amount
of kWh used in an average month and the cost per kWh using power from
the grid and using power from the solar/grid combination.

If someone only uses an average of 500 kWh/month, then there is no way a solar installation can possibly have a pay back.
If someone uses an average of 2,000 kWh/month, then solar would probably help quite a bit and they should look into it.

I used an average of 1,092 kWh in the Jan, 2005 to Dec, 2006 period with an average bill
of $82. My highest July bills were 1,921 kWh for $139 and 2,268 for $157. This was a
2,600 sq ft house built in 2000 with all the insulation Maracay could stuff in to the house.

There's no way I'd make a $10k or so investment to reduce an electric bill of $82/month or
$978/year. I have no doubt that it would eventually pay off - the risk/reward doesn't work for me.

I know all these kWh and $$$ numbers above because I collected them just for this analysis
from when I moved in in 2000 to when I moved out at the end of 2007.

RESPONSE

Your "statistics" need to be updated to current rates.
Your 1921 kWH now cost $190.52 & the 2268 kWh are now $232.16

And averages don't mean much when the cost per kWh varies seasonally & by total consumption.
Standard Rate winter is a flat 5 cents per kWh
Standard Rate Summer 5 cents per kWh for first 400kWh, 9 cents per kWh for the next 400kWh, 801 <> 2000kWh is12 cents per kWh

For 21 days I took 1124 kWh from APS, I gave them back APS back 96 kWh for a net of 1028 kWh we paid APS for in $$ PLUS all the power that we generated and kept on our side of the meter,

OH and solar systems are NOT one size fits all. The 500 kWh home u mentioned must be very small therefore they would have a small system