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* The summer heat. Along with that, the lack of rain. It's nice to have sunshine, but we get a little too much of it.
* Transplants who move here for silly reasons like the sun & heat, but not for important reasons like family or jobs. My biggest gripe is the self righteous transplants who tell natives & long term residents to move if we don't like their attitudes.
* NIMBYs who seem to make it their life goal to stall things like freeways, transit, highrises, theme parks, stadiums, etc.
* Lack of reputable corporate HQs & competitive jobs here despite how large the metro area is.
I actually did consider moving there and going to ASU. I made this thread to see if the things I didn't like about it a few years ago, are still a concern today. I love Arizona and have been all over the state on road trips growing up. My favorite area is Flagstaff. Phoenix is ok. I would consider moving to Arizona if the political climate changed. I'm more of a moderate person with some liberal and conservative views but Arizona just seems to be right wing and not friendly to more moderate liberal views.
Interesting, so you were exploring the idea of moving here a few years ago, then started this thread to determine if the political climate has changed? Yet you are sure the AZ is still too right wing.
Did you determine this after 3 pages of City-Data comments? Or were you already certain?
* Transplants who move here for silly reasons like the sun & heat, but not for important reasons like family or jobs. My biggest gripe is the self righteous transplants who tell natives & long term residents to move if we don't like their attitudes.
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I think this works in reverse too. The problem is that the transplants want to make it their home yet, like with all homes, there are things that the transplants want to change. The prevailing response of the natives (or those who have been here for a while) is "deal with it or move". There is absolutely no compromise like there is other places, because the natives feel that if someone could afford to move to Arizona, they can afford to move out of Arizona, so there is no point in having a discussion. Many other places, where people have lived for generations, have more of a political climate at least willing to listen to differing viewpoints.
I think this works in reverse too. The problem is that the transplants want to make it their home yet, like with all homes, there are things that the transplants want to change. The prevailing response of the natives (or those who have been here for a while) is "deal with it or move". There is absolutely no compromise like there is other places, because the natives feel that if someone could afford to move to Arizona, they can afford to move out of Arizona, so there is no point in having a discussion. Many other places, where people have lived for generations, have more of a political climate at least willing to listen to differing viewpoints.
That has some truth in it as well. I as a native am very willing to accept change for the better. In fact, I welcome progress in the form of better transportation, more business, improving the central core, etc. But some of the transplants I have come across moved here strictly for things like more sunshine & cheap housing, and not much else. They're often the ones who came here expecting Phoenix to be a small, laid back city like it was many years ago, and care very little about changing for the better ... and some of them are NIMBY types who don't want anything to obstruct "their" mountain views or "their" way of life. After being on forum boards like this one for over ten years, I have found that the most annoying thing a new transplant can do is tell long termers or natives to "deal with it or move". It's a lot like the new kid on the block trying to be the bully.
But the political climate is more diverse than it used to be. Even so, I really don't mind the politics overall because we tend to be more Libertarian, which actually means fiscally conservative, and live & let live on the social issues. Maybe not so much liberal socially, but more laissez faire on things like same sex couples, interracial couples, legalized marijuana, etc. I can't say much for our elected officials, but the majority of the citizens here are anything but Bible thumpers.
But the political climate is more diverse than it used to be. Even so, I really don't mind the politics overall because we tend to be more Libertarian, which actually means fiscally conservative, and live & let live on the social issues. Maybe not so much liberal socially, but more laissez faire on things like same sex couples, interracial couples, legalized marijuana, etc. I can't say much for our elected officials, but the majority of the citizens here are anything but Bible thumpers.
I would have to agree there. Arizona is definitely not a haven for "bible thumpers." Even Mesa and Gilbert politicians (Russell Pearce an exception) who are Mormon tend to be more "libertarian" Mormon politicians.
I do see your point about the newcomers making demands, to "deal with it or else." I know that this is happening in Colorado and Texas as well with the flood of Californians + Mid westerners flocking to Colorado, Texas, and also here to Arizona.
I don't mind aspects of the "libertarian" political system here. What I do not like are the "racist" and "self serving" elements which have nothing to do with libertarian principles. SB1070 as one example. The new laws to fight "voter fraud" that have nothing do do with voter fraud and everything to do with suppressing votes are another example. Finally, the local political establishment doesn't seem to give two shakes about education. The lack of a quality educational system is the reason that I likely will be moving to another state after I have kids. The public school system is just not a priority for the legislature and people whose kids are already grown.
Arizona has 1 good but not great and 2 mediocre public universities (that granted, have some select top 20 or top 25 programs), 1 mediocre for profit private university, 1 top tier graduate school that focuses on business management, and a few other mediocre (smaller) undergraduate / graduate schools. In the early - mid 2000s we had some politicians that tried to remedy this situation, but after the economy tanked and the state politicians moved right the current crop of politicians doesn't seem to care about fixing the higher education system and instead has gone to tax incentives for companies to move here. The problem with this philosophy is that it depletes the tax base and in 10-15 years these companies will move to the next state that provides them incentives.
I do love the state of Arizona but the political situation here is not good for those on the lower income scale or families. It's a great place to retire to (although sales taxes are quite high compared to other places) but isn't a good place for families (if you can't afford to send your kids to private schools).
I actually did consider moving there and going to ASU. I made this thread to see if the things I didn't like about it a few years ago, are still a concern today. I love Arizona and have been all over the state on road trips growing up. My favorite area is Flagstaff. Phoenix is ok. I would consider moving to Arizona if the political climate changed. I'm more of a moderate person with some liberal and conservative views but Arizona just seems to be right wing and not friendly to more moderate liberal views.
Ever hear of John McCain....you don't get anymore moderate than that and he's been elected how many times.
Actually here are a few things I hate about Phoenix, keep in mind I have to spend most of my time in Illinois.
1. Really aggravating too look out the window in January and see a foot of snow and zero degree weather while seeing its 60 in Phoenix.
2. Getting to spend 2 hours every weekend mowing my grass while my son is sending me pictures of him hanging out at our pool in Phoenix drinking a beer.
3. Being forced to drive on the nice well kept roads in Phoenix all the time makes me realize exactly how bad our roads in Illinois are...especially when I'm dodging potholes....thank you so very much.
... I see the same in this thread, people who came here from somewhere else and complaining about the makeup of the population and the political climate ...
An important thing to consider. The people who make this metropolis what it is today almost all CAME HERE FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. You are not likely interacting with native Arizonans in metro Phoenix. Native Arizonans are Navajos, Western Apaches, Yaquis, Quechans, Tohono O'odham, Zunis, etc., as well as indigenous people who migrated here from what is now Mexico and other central American countries. Only much later came Spanish explorers, Catholic missionaries, white pioneers, ranchers, freed slaves, and Mormon missionaries. I have met but a handful of any of them in the eight years I've lived in Arizona.
But I've met hundreds of people who were born and raised in Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, Kansas, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Ohio, New York, New Jersey, Oregon, Washington, and several provinces of Canada. Some of them share your political beliefs and some of them don't. So the state of Arizona continues to evolve as it has from the time the European explorers arrived in 1539 to when it became a state in 1912 to now — and many centuries before that.
You probably don't know this, but in the early 20th century, the Republican Party favored lumping the Arizona Territory in with New Mexico when it was granted statehood. But people from the Progressive Movement — which included Theordore Roosevelt, William Jennings Bryant, Robert La Follette, Sr., and Al Smith — rejected the plan, in large part because it did not include voting rights for women. When Arizona did become a state in 1912, our women had the right to vote, something that millions of other citizens didn't get until 1920.
Our state's first Congressman, who later became known as the Dean of the Senate, was Carl Hayden, a Democrat. He was born in the Arizona Territory to homesteaders who lived in what is now Tempe. He was followed by Lewis W. Douglas, Isabella Selmes Greenway (who happened to be a bridesmaid at Eleanor and Franklin Roosevelt's wedding), and John R. Murdoch, all of whom were Democrats. In fact, there was never a Republican in the U.S. Congress from Arizona until John Jacob Rhodes was sent in 1953.
So your idea of Arizona being a hotbed of your conservative brethren is, in the history of this state, quite a recent situation. Most likely brought to us by retirees from the Midwest, who began to flock here in Barry Goldwater's time.
I actually did consider moving there and going to ASU. I made this thread to see if the things I didn't like about it a few years ago, are still a concern today. I love Arizona and have been all over the state on road trips growing up. My favorite area is Flagstaff. Phoenix is ok. I would consider moving to Arizona if the political climate changed. I'm more of a moderate person with some liberal and conservative views but Arizona just seems to be right wing and not friendly to more moderate liberal views.
I believe Phoenix could become more "progressive" and have more "character", but that will involve less complacency amongst residents who move here, and an organized involvement in getting progressive type candidates in office. Many of the people here just go with the flow, and they have to understand that a good ole boy system here has been in place for many years, mainly for monetary control, and nationwide this regressive movement is trying to block progressive change that will make it hard for conservatism to survive in a changing country demographically. If ordinary citizens knew what is going on in conservative think tanks, we would have an actual civil war in this country.
I was born and raised here, and also lived in the SF Bay area for 15 years so I have lived both worlds. How many of you realize that we have had huge interracial mixing and dating here since the 70's? So many of us from different cultures have meshed well here. But the "divide and conquer" strategies used big time since 2008 by conservatives to exacerbate white fears of people of color, in order to get white conservative votes in a dying party, has hurt Phoenix. We can exist together and live together as long as there is no concerted effort to pull us apart. This conservative movement was designed in think tanks to keep bradleyyo types in CA, so they can't dilute the conservative voter rolls. You fears of moving here play right into their hands. Arizona is the next state to turn blue, and if people like you can be made to fear moving here, that can prolong that change.
The Bay Area's problem is they try to restrict massive real estate development, which drives prices through the roof. Here in Phoenix we have waaay to much real estate development which causes urban blight (Can anyone say E. Main Street or the Fiesta Mall area in Mesa,the Metrocenter area in Phoenix?). There is a middle ground that can create balance and minimize blight and shortages.
We have to work to create the change we want to see implemented.
Look at what Latinos did in Maryvale to oust an old conservative from the Phoenix City Council and replace him with a more progressive Latino member. Door to door grassroots operations,and educating people about the political corruption here, and how to fight it.
We have to educate people, organize volunteers and turn out the vote heavily. You'd be surprised how many people would be open minded to positive change in the Phoenix area if they knew a lot of the behind the scenes corporate manipulation of the political process going on. Like I said I was born and raised here.
And San Diego historically has not been as progressve as other major cities within California, but it does have character.
I welcome more people moving here who want to volunteer to change things and educate people. We don't need conservative democrats who are afraid to rock the corporate boat either. Once politicians realize that the voters are more progressive, and progressives have many libertarian leanings, many people like that can get into office, realizing that they were elected to implement change FOR THE PEOPLE. Progressives just want a government thaty is run BY the people and FOR the people, and not a government run to CONTROL the people, which is financed by corporate bribes. In that sense, if we work together we can make changes that benefit the PEOPLE not big corporations.
Don't give up on us Bradleyyo. We need you, and more like you to come here and help us change things for the better. We have the same liberal liquor laws as California, and don't really have the vocal bible thumpers that are present in more Midwestern and Southern areas. You can deal with things here.
An important thing to consider. The people who make this metropolis what it is today almost all CAME HERE FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. You are not likely interacting with native Arizonans in metro Phoenix. Native Arizonans are Navajos, Western Apaches, Yaquis, Quechans, Tohono O'odham, Zunis, etc., as well as indigenous people who migrated here from what is now Mexico and other central American countries. Only much later came Spanish explorers, Catholic missionaries, white pioneers, ranchers, freed slaves, and Mormon missionaries. I have met but a handful of any of them in the eight years I've lived in Arizona.
But I've met hundreds of people who were born and raised in Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, Kansas, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Ohio, New York, New Jersey, Oregon, Washington, and several provinces of Canada. Some of them share your political beliefs and some of them don't. So the state of Arizona continues to evolve as it has from the time the European explorers arrived in 1539 to when it became a state in 1912 to now — and many centuries before that.
You probably don't know this, but in the early 20th century, the Republican Party favored lumping the Arizona Territory in with New Mexico when it was granted statehood. But people from the Progressive Movement — which included Theordore Roosevelt, William Jennings Bryant, Robert La Follette, Sr., and Al Smith — rejected the plan, in large part because it did not include voting rights for women. When Arizona did become a state in 1912, our women had the right to vote, something still denied to many other American citizens.
Our state's first Congressman, who later became known as the Dean of the Senate, was Carl Hayden, a Democrat. He was born in the Arizona Territory to homesteaders who lived in what is now Tempe. He was followed by Lewis W. Douglas, Isabella Selmes Greenway (who happened to be a bridesmaid at Eleanor and Franklin Roosevelt's wedding), and John R. Murdoch, all of whom were Democrats. In fact, there was never a Republican in the U.S. Congress from Arizona until John Jacob Rhodes was sent in 1953.
So your idea of Arizona being a hotbed of your conservative brethren is, in the history of this state, quite a recent situation. Most likely brought to us by retirees from the Midwest, who began to flock here in Barry Goldwater's time.
Thanks, you summed up my point exactly (in a whole lot more words). I said nothing about conservatives in the post you quoted, I was making a point about people leaving a certain place because it is a mess and they are fleeing that mess and going somewhere else and wanting to change that place into what they just left. Could be conservative or liberal though it seems more liberals are fleeing liberal states and cities to more conservative places then there are conservative places emptying out to more liberal places. When they get there they advocate the liberal policies that ruined the places they just came from.
A lot of people will go through the expensive task of selling their homes and relocating to Phoenix, just to find out in a year or two that they cant stand it. Then comes the task of having to relocate again and that becomes another burden they don't want to repeat.
for me personally, the political climate of Phoenix and Arizona as a whole would prevent me from locating there. The heat is a lot worse than here in Southern California so that would be a huge negative as well. I don't think Phoenix really has any character, it just seems like a sprawling desert city.
If you have not noticed the clash of Cultures is live and well for everything North San Diego (conservative town). Since phoenix is trying to be the new LA of 30 years ago we here in Valley is going thru the cultures of other US Cities.
The Political Climate is balance with not group ruling the roost (like San Franciso/LibCity). Arizona is correct in enforcing their State Sov. over the 3 Mexican Invasions. This Racial thing is a over blown way to push for open boarders. Most Arizonians don't care what race you. They do care about their state going broke and there is no possible the Tax Payers of Arizona can afford to carry Illegals.
1070 was Bold and with E-verify we have slowed the pace of Illegal Immigration. To the dismay of Liberals & Democrats , Arizona stood its ground. I respect that. California is broke and has made too many promises over the years to honor.
Arizona is trying to Preserve American Culture. Not every bodies' else. American is a grand thing. Arizona encourages English as a primary language and as the language of Prosperity.
Californians s are trying to make Phx in the new and improves LA.
I am a transplant myself and do not really like living here , but I respect Arizona and clearly is not my place to judge or make changes.
If you don not like this place. Someday I will see you on My way East as we leave Arizona. Arizona has a lot to offer to folks who wish to make a stand here. No state is perfect and you the Californian must adjust yourself.
Arizona is Beautiful, untamed and even some days you feel that old west sprit blow thru your hair. As a True Floridian , Arizona has kind to me. Even when I did not earn it! If you WISH to make a change, change California.
Arizona is not bad. This is a outsider looking in!
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If you WISH to make a change, change California.
This is a outsider looking in!
