Decline of Phoenix area? (Tempe: middle-class, appointed, 2013)

[HTY483]

Originally Posted by AlohaFriday

Light rail is pretty slow. They should have built it above grade, not at-grade, to make it faster. Driving is easier and more convenient. I always wonder who takes it.

I typically use when going to D-Backs and Suns games and have been happy with it. I've used it a few other times to go downtown for meetings and it's been packed so I know it gets tons of ridership, even more so now that ASU has a campus downtown.

Regarding the system being elevated instead of at grade, we had a chance for an elevated system back in the early 90's but the dumb a$$ Phoenix voters turned it down citing high cost. This high cost was mainly due to all of the utility relocation that would need to be done but they ended up having to do that anyway for the current at grade alternative.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by HTY483

I typically use when going to D-Backs and Suns games and have been happy with it. I've used it a few other times to go downtown for meetings and it's been packed so I know it gets tons of ridership, even more so now that ASU has a campus downtown.

Regarding the system being elevated instead of at grade, we had a chance for an elevated system back in the early 90's but the dumb a$$ Phoenix voters turned it down citing high cost. This high cost was mainly due to all of the utility relocation that would need to be done but they ended up having to do that anyway for the current at grade alternative.

It was a much bigger system. 103 miles vs current 20 miles for the light rail. Definitely short-sighted though.

[AlohaFriday]

I didn't know that. It's interesting to ponder how different development would have been over the last few decades had light rail been built in the 90s.

[Potential_Landlord]

So sure Phoenix is not a #1 tier city but very livable for being a second-tier one. If you are really top-notch and driven you will not probably stay, but for the rest of us it seems to be fine or at least good enough.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by AlohaFriday

I didn't know that. It's interesting to ponder how different development would have been over the last few decades had light rail been built in the 90s.

There were buses along the same routes that moved people as quickly at a fraction of the cost. The buses were just not trendy enough for the urbanistas and drunken sports fans. The novelty has worn off and the urbanistas went back to their SUVs. The light rail is now pretty much bums and students outside of game nights. It was built through a trashy part of town that is still trashy today. I doubt much would have changed.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

There were buses along the same routes that moved people as quickly at a fraction of the cost. The buses were just not trendy enough for the urbanistas and drunken sports fans. The novelty has worn off and the urbanistas went back to their SUVs. The light rail is now pretty much bums and students outside of game nights. It was built through a trashy part of town that is still trashy today. I doubt much would have changed.

I'm not going to feed the troll, there is so much inflammatory nonsense in the post that it's not worth it. Suffice to say ridership has increased each year and is ahead of predictions.

Providing Public Transportation Alternatives for the Greater Phoenix Metro Area | Valley Metro | Ridership Reports

[boumer]

Originally Posted by Agoodtry

As I have been looking at relocating, I have a few saved Zillow searches and I have noticed a number of PRICE CUTS on houses.

Would lvoe opinions.

We relocated here in 2007, at the start of the housing meltdown and just before "the great rececssion." We don't regret moving but if we had a crystal ball and had known all that was in store we might have had second thoughts. You can't predict the future and relocation is more than just facts, figures and predictions.

While it's true there are a lot of service industries here, and a lot of small business, it depends on how you earn living and whether or not the cost of living and salary in the new area will support your desired style of living. My field is well represented in the Phoenix job market.

We did what you did: read about the area. We also checked job sites for opportunities and salary data, and looked at housing prices. One of the final determining factors was based on the cost-of-living calculators out there. We had an opportunity to move here or Bend, OR. The cost-of-living calculator, salary offered and housing prices were the deciding factor for us.

In terms of home price cuts, I'm surprised at that. It depends on where you are looking, because real estate is always about location, location, location. Where we live, in the NW Valley, housing prices are rising and homes are moving on the market. We're not actually looking for a home right now, but a few months ago some of the local news stations were reporting on bidding wars in some areas.

[AZDesertBrat]

Originally Posted by AlohaFriday

I didn't know that. It's interesting to ponder how different development would have been over the last few decades had light rail been built in the 90s.

They started arguing about it many years before that. It was always voted down, mostly for the cost. So they waited decades to do something at a MUCH higher cost. If they'd done it back then it would have been a much larger system by now but likely be needing a lot of infrastructure repairs, etc.. I think the Valley needs as many transportation choices as they can get.

[Bondurant]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

The light rail is now pretty much bums and students outside of game nights. It was built through a trashy part of town that is still trashy today. I doubt much would have changed.

This is one of the most patently false statements I have ever read in this forum.

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat

I think the Valley needs as many transportation choices as they can get.

While I think it sounds good on many levels getting public transportation more widespread, the reality is we are a car culture and the vast majority of people want their car to get around in. We are 180 degrees opposite of Europe in this regard and unless something major changes like a culture shift or gas goes to an obscene level, I don't think public transportation is a thing the vast majority of people will use, even if it's right under their nose. Perhaps a new generation will move away from cars and embrace it but that's yet to be scene.

For example, where I used to work in another city/state, we had a bus line that went through a nice suburban area to a downtown area that's a major pain to find parking. And in the good parking areas, one would have to move their car every few hours or get a ticket. Guess what? Most people wouldn't touch the bus with a 10 foot poll even though one could get a very cheap monthly pass for unlimited rides($30 a month as I recall) and dropped right in front of the major area where 10's of thousands of people worked. It wasn't that the area was bad that the bus went through, and there weren't many stops so the bus got to downtown about 10 minutes slower than a car would have taken to drive the same route. So even with a great deal of savings in gas, parking, wear and tear on a car, very few workers took that bus. I've seen it when I had business in Minneapolis also with their light rail back some years ago. Unless things have changed, the vast majority of people bypassed it and wanted to take their cars.