Solar energy (Phoenix, Glendale: homes, landscaping, maintenance)

[mistyriver]

http://www.srpnet.com/environment/earthwise/pdfx/ResBuybackRider1005.pdf (broken link)

I guess it's all in how you live. If people can live completely off the grid and manufacture all of their own power than if a grid-tied suburbanite wanted to live in a very energy conscious manner, I would think they'd see far more remunerationthan what you have stated above.

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by foma

anybody know if on new builds, generally speaking, you can opt for solar items such as solar water heaters? any experience?

It's standard in one of Pulte's communities in Tucson - TEP guaranteed heating/cooling costs + solar water heater. I've seen "green" houses advertised by other builders as well (even KB), but I don't know if the features are standard or not. I was kinda nervous about the latter... what do you do in the winter... but apparently it switches to electricity when it's not sunny. Last time I mentioned the name of the community it got cut off (advertisement supposedly)... If anybody wants to know, PM me.

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by joninaz

I thought it was more of a credit off one's monthly bill, as most residential solar systems don't produce a surplus 24/7. According to SRP's site, in general, residential customer save $10-40 (http://www.srpnet.com/environment/earthwise/solar/faq/cost.aspx - broken link) a month, which is a pretty small percentage during peak months.

While I haven't had personal experience yet, the savings look quite substantial to me. I've posted this study before.

http://www.civanoneighbors.com/docs/..._2006-2007.pdf

Look at the table on p.6 comparing to '98-'99 and pre-'96 houses.

[mistyriver]

ok, so hear is the deal.

1. All power companies regardless of where or what they are, are required to buy power that is consumer produced. They are only required to reimburse the consumer at the same wholesale rate they pay for power they purchase elsewhere. In states like Idaho where there is a significant amount of hydropower, that amount is low vs. a state that uses a significant amount of carbon based fuels. APS is nuc powered and SRP is generally either buying power elsewhere or hydro.

2. It does not typically take 20 yrs to pay for solar panels and installation but each person needs to run an analysis including federal tax credits (credits not deductions) and state incentives.

3. The feel good factor is to be considered but even more to be considered is that as long as power is cheap, we will waste it. Look what has happened with gasoline. It won't be so easy to back off the electric power grid if prices go skyrocketing. It is one thing buy a Yugo and drive less, but try to get by without AC in Arizona in the summer.

4. Power is not just a state or national issue. The power that comes into Arizona is part of the western power grid which is subject to rolling brown and black outs depending on the rest of the coastal states. Witness August 1994 when a power grid failure resulted in Phoenix being blacked out for 36 hours.

jim

[chatter crac]

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

Before I moved to Glendale I was excited about the prospect of putting in solar hot water, evaporative cooler, and maybe even photovoltaic panels to reduce those high summer electric bills and do my little bit for the environment.

But some folks in the home improvement business have thrown cold water on my plans. They say solar hot water "makes you feel righteous" but has maintenance issues and takes 5-6 years to pay for itself. Evaporative coolers introduce moisture that can lead to mold, and they do require regular maintenance. Solar electric panels are still extremely expensive and it can take 20 years to pay for themselves.

Also, the prices seem to be higher than I expected. I've heard an evap cooler might cost $300 plus installation, which seems reasonable, but I've also heard much higher numbers. Similarly for solar hot water.

I don't know. I guess I need to get some vendors out and give me estimates, and we can make a decision. It seems stupid to waste all that sunlight. My electric bills in August (when we moved here) were over $300/month. If that's going to be the average for five months a year, then shaving $100/month off that bill is going to pay back pretty quickly I would think.

I would also hope and expect that solar energy will increase the resale value of my home so I would get some of that money back if I sell the house in about 5-6 years. But a fellow at Home Depot who was trying to sell me attic insulation claims that some people regard it as not an asset but as a nuisance and will disconnect it. He argues that attic insulation, plus modern insulated windows, makes the biggest difference in home energy use.

My windows are crappy, but my attic insulation is normal and the attic is well ventilated, so I'm not sure his argument really applies. I do want better windows but it'll cost about $300-$500/window. I guess that also increases resale value.

Just thinking out loud here. I would love to hear any comments, pro and con, regarding solar energy.

Wait until 2014 when nano technology will start to be discovered and instead of solar panels only catching one ray of light which they currentyl do, they will absorb the entire spectrum and be alot more efficient. Not only that, they also plan to make them into paint and run special wires under the paint...you'll put the special paint on your roof. Just wait another decade or so and alternative energy will develop on a massive scale. ......Also: don't forget to support a full conversion to corn ethonal which gets 50 miles for every 1 acre of corn...we'll have to plant 93% of America in corn in order to achieve this.

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by mistyriverranch

3. The feel good factor is to be considered but even more to be considered is that as long as power is cheap, we will waste it. Look what has happened with gasoline. It won't be so easy to back off the electric power grid if prices go skyrocketing. It is one thing buy a Yugo and drive less, but try to get by without AC in Arizona in the summer.

You know, actually I don't feel very good about it. Yes, the ideas are inherently good and on selfish level I'm looking forward to an efficient house, whereas on another level knowing what the movement is associated with makes my skin crawl... Since I can't change anything about the world, though, might as well take care of my own basic needs.

[mistyriver]

Originally Posted by sierraAZ

You know, actually I don't feel very good about it. Yes, the ideas are inherently good and on selfish level I'm looking forward to an efficient house, whereas on another level knowing what the movement is associated with makes my skin crawl... Since I can't change anything about the world, though, might as well take care of my own basic needs.

What is the movement associated with it?

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by mistyriverranch

What is the movement associated with it?

Let's just say I don't believe in global warming and such...

[mistyriver]

Originally Posted by sierraAZ

Let's just say I don't believe in global warming and such...

I always find it funny that people think we are earthy crunchy liberals because we live on solar power. It's pretty far from the truth although we don't believe in wasting if we can avoid it. Personally I think that conserving resources should be more of a rallying cry for conservatives than for liberals.
We're pretty much conservative republicans.
Also, solar power makes us more independent. I can't tell you how many times our nearest neighbor has lost power from snowstorms since we've been here. We never lose power.

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by mistyriverranch

I always find it funny that people think we are earthy crunchy liberals because we live on solar power.

I don't think you get it, but I'm not going to talk more about it. I have nothing against solar power itself. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna have it, as I said.

I totally agree with this, too:

we don't believe in wasting if we can avoid it.

My beef is different, but it's neither the place nor the time, and at this point party lines mean nothing to me.