What Phoenix Lacks is.... (Scottsdale, Tempe: amusement parks, condominiums, home)

[joninaz]

- Mill Ave. is one of those walkable/people watching stretches that are decent.

- Old Town is evolving, though it's still very much under construction.

- I kinda like Kierland as it was desinged to be something different and compact. It's just a tad too much of one thing - higher end, big budget shops.

- 7th Ave. (Melrose) has a pretty cool stretch of mixed places, though not exactly ped friendly and foot connected.

I guess the dream scenario might be a combination of all of the above, within a short, walkable stretch. Or a place where one can drive/park and stretch the legs wile people watching. The funny thing is some of my friends seem to have found this with the Tempe Marketplace. They love it. To me, it's the same stores/chains, but assembled in a different, outdoorsy mix.

Can't we get all of the cool, spread out places to converge on a single street? Lux coffee next to Postino next to a Changing Hands, next to Buffalo Exchange, next to Sportsmans, with an AJ's and Long Wongs, etc. - all on the same stretch?

Wishful thinking!

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by joninaz

-The funny thing is some of my friends seem to have found this with the Tempe Marketplace. They love it. To me, it's the same stores/chains, but assembled in a different, outdoorsy mix.

My guess and hope is that they'll like Tempe Marketplace a little less in the summer when they'll have to walk across the huge, unshaded parking lots to get to the stores and then return to their hot cars that have been baking in the sun for hours. True pedestrian-centric neighborhoods utilize parking garages and parallel on-street parking rather than huge surface lots. They can also be reached readily via public transportation and have mature shade trees along major pedestrian routes. Tempe Marketplace's ultra-suburban character will show its limitations in the hotter weather.

[yakijy]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

Yeah, just seemed like a shock that you'd say that, thats all. I find it to be exactly opposite of what you say, but hey!

I guess I am defining 'walkable' in terms of how much I actually 'walked' in each place. In Chicago I would sometimes walk the dog around the block - weather permitting. In Scottsdale I walk to the park often, a good 45 min, because there is so little traffic in the street I walk on. In Chicago the parks were small, crowded, far away - I never went to them. The lakefront is the crown jewel of Chicago, but it would take me 40 min to drive crosstown on Saturday, and if I could find a parking space among the soccer players, I would sit at Montrose Harbor for 15-30 minutes, then leave. My sister-in-law lives in Schaumburg and never goes into the city - ever.
On Saturday in Phoenix I can go to a number of uncrowded trails and parks. There's also a number of places easy to get to, like Flagstaff, Prescott, Mexico, Ca - within 2-6 hours. In Chicago a 4 hr drive will get you the Wisconsin Dells - o boy!
In Chicago I 'walked' Grant Park/Navy Pier during the 'Taste' or with out-of-town visitors. Parking at the Pier or downtown can run $20-30, and if you leave your car for a minute, Daley's goons tow your car.
That being said - if I were single I'd be back in Chicago, but that has nothing to do with 'walkability'.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by yakijy

I guess I am defining 'walkable' in terms of how much I actually 'walked' in each place. In Chicago I would sometimes walk the dog around the block - weather permitting. In Scottsdale I walk to the park often, a good 45 min, because there is so little traffic in the street I walk on. In Chicago the parks were small, crowded, far away - I never went to them. The lakefront is the crown jewel of Chicago, but it would take me 40 min to drive crosstown on Saturday, and if I could find a parking space among the soccer players, I would sit at Montrose Harbor for 15-30 minutes, then leave. My sister-in-law lives in Schaumburg and never goes into the city - ever.
On Saturday in Phoenix I can go to a number of uncrowded trails and parks. There's also a number of places easy to get to, like Flagstaff, Prescott, Mexico, Ca - within 2-6 hours. In Chicago a 4 hr drive will get you the Wisconsin Dells - o boy!
In Chicago I 'walked' Grant Park/Navy Pier during the 'Taste' or with out-of-town visitors. Parking at the Pier or downtown can run $20-30, and if you leave your car for a minute, Daley's goons tow your car.
That being said - if I were single I'd be back in Chicago, but that has nothing to do with 'walkability'.

Thanks for explaining! I agree about the traffic thing, Chicago is much harder to "get away" from crowds. But a 4 hour drive from Chicago will get you to places that are very quiet and beautiful (places like Devil's Lake, Galena, Starved Rock, Matthiessen state park, Buffalo Rock state park, Castle Rock state park, Shawnee National Forest, Garden of the Gods national park, Mississippi Palisades state park, Apple River Canyon state park etc, etc, etc). Seems like you didnt explore much when you lived out here?

[yakijy]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

Thanks for explaining! I agree about the traffic thing, Chicago is much harder to "get away" from crowds. But a 4 hour drive from Chicago will get you to places that are very quiet and beautiful (places like Devil's Lake, Galena, Starved Rock, Matthiessen state park, Buffalo Rock state park, Castle Rock state park, Shawnee National Forest, Garden of the Gods national park, Mississippi Palisades state park, Apple River Canyon state park etc, etc, etc). Seems like you didnt explore much when you lived out here?

Been to Galena, Starved Rock, and Michigan's Upper Peninsula once. I would sometimes drive to Lake Geneva if I didn't want to go all the way to the Dells. Long Grove is a nice 'day' trip. But with all of them you have to deal with the Kennedy, Dan Ryan, toll roads.

[desert student]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

Thanks for explaining! I agree about the traffic thing, Chicago is much harder to "get away" from crowds. But a 4 hour drive from Chicago will get you to places that are very quiet and beautiful (places like Devil's Lake, Galena, Starved Rock, Matthiessen state park, Buffalo Rock state park, Castle Rock state park, Shawnee National Forest, Garden of the Gods national park, Mississippi Palisades state park, Apple River Canyon state park etc, etc, etc). Seems like you didnt explore much when you lived out here?

Are you kidding yourself?! I would really like to know how you get to Shawnee National Forest and Garden of the Gods state park in four hours from Chicago! Did you "beam" there! It would take almost a hour to get out of Chicago traffic first off! That is only if you are in Chicago city, and not in the suburbs. If you are in Shaumburg expect more than that easily. Then, if you choose to go I-55 south, it would take almost 1.5 to 2 hrs. to get to Boomington/Normal. Then, no matter which route you take, it is almost 3-4 hrs south of that! Illinois is a very long state and you are going from the extreme north end to extreme south end. In a perfect world with no traffic and you could go 90 the whole trip, then maybe. But no way from Chicago could you make it in 4 hrs on a regular day! Forget about even trying it in one day on the weekend!

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Wow, great post, sierraAZ! Not sure if I want to go there, but great read! Isn't that ironic that living in AZ, you have to go to another country just to get an "urban fix"?

Well, gotta live somehow with my wrong choices. At least it's close enough for me. It's a bit of a trek for a day trip for you. Besides, as I said, there are more places in Phoenix giving you this feeling.

C'mon, vegaspilgrim, don't be a chicken! You're not one of those people who ask a dozen of questions about purified water and ice, are ya?! It's fine. Yes, there is abject poverty around, but it's yet to kill anybody visiting. You'll have fun for a day, I promise! The drive used to be a breeze - not much traffic and mostly cars. Don't know if it's because of these agreements lately, but traffic was awful this weekend - many trucks (and dangerous trucks at that) and crazy truckies.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by silverbear

My guess and hope is that they'll like Tempe Marketplace a little less in the summer when they'll have to walk across the huge, unshaded parking lots to get to the stores and then return to their hot cars that have been baking in the sun for hours. True pedestrian-centric neighborhoods utilize parking garages and parallel on-street parking rather than huge surface lots. They can also be reached readily via public transportation and have mature shade trees along major pedestrian routes. Tempe Marketplace's ultra-suburban character will show its limitations in the hotter weather.

To be fair, Tempe Marketplace is easily reached with public transportation. Tempe's new free Orbit bus service (which runs empty all the time, but I digress...) stops at Tempe Marketplace on pretty much every line, every 15 minutes. They'll even drop the passengers off right at the entrance to the store. I still think Tempe Marketplace is a bad idea. Case in point-- the Harkins movie theather on Mill Ave, one of my favorite things about Mill Ave, just closed down last week, since the new one at Tempe Marketplace took all the business away. Despite what some people say, I think Tempe is actually going downhill as a city, and Mill Ave continues to get worse, not better.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Despite what some people say, I think Tempe is actually going downhill as a city, and Mill Ave continues to get worse, not better.

I have to disagree a little with you.

Tempe Marketplace and Mill Avenue have two totally different demographic target markets -

Mill Ave focuses on the College Crowd primarily - the bars and clubs, boutiques etc.

Tempe Marketplace, with all the chain stores, focuses on the more adult market - very few clubs etc.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by desert student

Are you kidding yourself?! I would really like to know how you get to Shawnee National Forest and Garden of the Gods state park in four hours from Chicago! Did you "beam" there! It would take almost a hour to get out of Chicago traffic first off! That is only if you are in Chicago city, and not in the suburbs. If you are in Shaumburg expect more than that easily. Then, if you choose to go I-55 south, it would take almost 1.5 to 2 hrs. to get to Boomington/Normal. Then, no matter which route you take, it is almost 3-4 hrs south of that! Illinois is a very long state and you are going from the extreme north end to extreme south end. In a perfect world with no traffic and you could go 90 the whole trip, then maybe. But no way from Chicago could you make it in 4 hrs on a regular day! Forget about even trying it in one day on the weekend!

Ive made it from Warrenville (off of I-88 and Rt. 59 area) to Shawnee in a shade over 4 hours, but then again I do drive fast. Ive also made it to Galena in 2 hours from Warrenville too. And if youre planning to go to Shawnee, youre gonna leave early anyways, when traffic is light.