The truth about Phoenix traffic congestion. (Mesa, Scottsdale: lease, houses, neighborhoods)

[elcajones]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

It's bad because everyone drives so freaking fast. 696 during rush hour is like the Indy 500. There's a good bit of traffic but literally everyone is going 10 over the speed limit. Honestly though, freeway traffic isn't bad (if there isn't construction) and there's only a few major interchanges were traffic tends to bottleneck but they're easy to avoid if you know your way around.

However, if you include local streets and major thoroughfares, then it can be pretty bad. Woodward through central Oakland County, roads parallel or feeding into I-75, Hall Road, Mound or Van Dyke, pretty much any road in western Wayne and Oakland County... it's like, the traffic that isn't on the freeways are all on the surface streets. Or rather like the freeways were planned out really well but the surface streets, not so much.

The great irony is that the roads within Detroit proper are already widened to accommodate the traffic it once had but because of the urban flight, most are pretty empty throughout the day.

Great info. Rep for you .

[elcajones]

Originally Posted by ajonesaz

How does closing restrooms equate to more traffic? If anything it speeds it up when people need to find a place to go

We were building the new 303 and 24 freeways even during the recession.

Any time I cross the state border into New Mexico or California I remind myself how good the roads are here.

The 303 is awesome for the West Valley, who has at LA esque traffic situation due to ADOT"s neglect in improving roads and building freeways out there. It was a simply a start to the highway infrastructure the west side needs but they need a few more highways out there too.

The 24 on the other hand as it stands now is a joke. For one it's only concrete and not rubberized asphalt so you all no ADOT will ruin it with construction cones while repaving repaving before it's 5 years old. And make it a construction mess doing so for a long time like the 101 is now and 202 Red mountain.
And 2 it's only like a mile long and kind of a joke right now. Some day it will extend through Pinal County and IMO the homeowners of San Tan Valley are sitting on a gold mine regarding property value increase when that happens BUT, no extensions are even close to approved. The 24 right now is more or less just an exit ramp to Ellsworth.

[R_Cowgirl]

Random Reactions to study in no particular order:

1) They group their ranking by size of city

1 a) Why is it "Phoenix-Mesa"??? What about Greater Phoenix? Are they including the area from Fountain Hills to Glendale, Anthem to EFM? (East Mesa...)

1 b) While I agree that three main segments of the Freeways are crushed during rush hours, I've seen far worse in smaller city regions. Comparing those to Phoenix puts Phoenix farther down the list than 14 IMHO

2) Did anyone else notice how much worse it was across the board in 2005 than it is now? It appears that, while things are worse now than in 2000, they are better than they were in 2005.

2 a) Does that mean we are getting smarter about traffic?

2 b) Or does that mean that the hidden "real" unemployment figures (counting everyone who isn't working, not only counting those who are collecting unemployment checks) mean there are fewer people commuting to and from work?

3) They have Honolulu in the wrong segment. The island of Oahu, which is considered Honolulu County, has 976,380 people not counting the tourists. On any given day on Oahu, according to their visitor's bureau, there are 87,000 tourists on the island.

3 a) That puts Honolulu in the Large Category, not the medium. Honolulu's Traffic is a complete nightmare. It once took me 4 hours to get from Makakilo to Ala Moana - 20 miles. The average commute from Makakilo to the airport (16 miles) was an hour and a half.

3 b) Actually, if you look at all the stats, that would put it even with Dallas in the Very Large category. The difference? There's room around Dallas to expand freeways and there are far more side road options. You can't drive on the ocean!

4) They miss one very large consequence of lengthened commute times: The breakdown of the family. On Oahu, our kids went to school in town (it's complicated...) They commuted along with us or took the bus and none of us got home very early. It was hard to have meals together, and the kids didn't get to play with neighbor kids very often, and they didn't get to just hang out and be kids with their school friends. When we made that necessary move outside the main confines of Honolulu, it drastically changed and challenged the fabric of the family. The stressors of the commute along with the financial challenges of living in the islands made us all a little more cranky. I would guess that is the same in any of the cities mentioned.

5) So many of these places would be served with a very good Rail System. I have traveled often to Singapore and I'm impressed by their Rail and transportation system in general. Granted, it was put in place by a Benevolent Dictator... but it does work! I've used the Light Rail here in Phoenix recently and I'm very impressed and hopeful for the city. If that could be stretched to the 101 up North and then put in East to West somehow, that might be the answer. It is very well run, clean, and used by a lot of people.

6) For all the complaining about Phoenix traffic (and yes, it IS bad sometimes) we are far better off here than in many cities, no matter what the studies say. We have a responsive ADOT. The roads are clean and well maintained, and God bless those guys who work on our roads in our 115º summers!

7) I would hope that telecommuting, car pooling and floating work start/end times could ease the congestion everywhere somehow. That's a cultural thing that has to catch on.

Interesting study and interesting conversation...

[ajonesaz]

Originally Posted by R_Cowgirl

[/indent]2) Did anyone else notice how much worse it was across the board in 2005 than it is now? It appears that, while things are worse now than in 2000, they are better than they were in 2005.

2 a) Does that mean we are getting smarter about traffic?

[indent] 2 b) Or does that mean that the hidden "real" unemployment figures (counting everyone who isn't working, not only counting those who are collecting unemployment checks) mean there are fewer people commuting to and from work?
.

The 202 opened that year, prior to that the 60, 101 and 10 were all a nightmare in the east. The 202 made a big difference!

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by sargeant79

If the problem is that everyone is driving so fast, then there isn't a traffic problem. There's just a lot of cars on the road. Traffic is when you are bumper to bumper and/or stopped altogether on the freeways. Like when you pull up google maps, add the traffic overlay, and you see a lot of red.

Those cars eventually have to change lanes, don't they? Yea, just wait until everyone decides to take the same exit. And actually, most of the freeway traffic problems seem to occur when cars need to weave off or into the flow of traffic. Like a lot of times, if you stick to the far left lane, you can maintain the speed limit while cars in the far right are usually stationary or far below the speed limit as they load up into an off-ramp or merge from an on-ramp. Of course then you have the impatient folks driving along trying to cut into the cars that are stationary just so they be be several cars up.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by ajonesaz

The 202 opened that year, prior to that the 60, 101 and 10 were all a nightmare in the east. The 202 made a big difference!

Flash forward to 2015, the west valley has some of the worst traffic because I-10 is a major headache, and those freeway reliever routes for the southwest valley haven't broken ground.

The center strip in the middle of west I-10 could be filled in with some extra lanes in the meantime.

I think once SR 30 and the 202 Loop around Ahwatukee are finally built it will give west valley commuters some traffic relief.

[Valley Native]

As far as traffic congestion, I can believe Phoenix being #14 in the nation much more than I can believe it ranking below the top 20. Traffic here may not be brutal like it is in D.C., L.A., Chicago, or a few other metro areas, but it's still heavy enough during rush hour ... and a lot of it depends on where a person commutes to and from. Somebody who drives from the far SE Valley to downtown is going to have a lengthy commute. So maybe it's not so much how heavy the traffic is, but how LONG the drive is.

I would also agree that building more freeways and widening some of the existing ones can make a difference in the congestion. I can see why I10 from the 51/202 interchange westbound is so backed up. For one thing, there are really no alternate freeway routes in the west Valley, which puts too much strain on I10. Also, I10 itself is a problem because of the wide center median consisting of dirt which ADOT refuses to do anything about ... it could easily be converted to extra general purpose lanes, or even HOT lanes. Until the 10 is widened, and more freeways are built, I'm afraid traffic is going to always be snarled, and will only get worse as long as the metro area continues to grow outward.

[new2colo]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

As far as traffic congestion, I can believe Phoenix being #14 in the nation much more than I can believe it ranking below the top 20. Traffic here may not be brutal like it is in D.C., L.A., Chicago, or a few other metro areas, but it's still heavy enough during rush hour ... and a lot of it depends on where a person commutes to and from. Somebody who drives from the far SE Valley to downtown is going to have a lengthy commute. So maybe it's not so much how heavy the traffic is, but how LONG the drive is.

I would also agree that building more freeways and widening some of the existing ones can make a difference in the congestion. I can see why I10 from the 51/202 interchange westbound is so backed up. For one thing, there are really no alternate freeway routes in the west Valley, which puts too much strain on I10. Also, I10 itself is a problem because of the wide center median consisting of dirt which ADOT refuses to do anything about ... it could easily be converted to extra general purpose lanes, or even HOT lanes. Until the 10 is widened, and more freeways are built, I'm afraid traffic is going to always be snarled, and will only get worse as long as the metro area continues to grow outward.

Yes, building more freeways and lanes will lessen congestion. Just look to LA for proof.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by new2colo

Yes, building more freeways and lanes will lessen congestion. Just look to LA for proof.

Actually, when LA's freeways were first planned, there was meant to be a lot more. Of course, people revolted and didn't want planners to tear up any more neighborhoods.

If you compare LA to NYC, you can easily see that NYC has a lot more freeways (partly of course from having twice the population density). The only problem is that all the routes into Manhattan or Brooklyn (where pretty much 80% of the jobs are) are all bottlenecked by the bridges and tunnels. Plus the brides and tunnels themselves are usually no more than 2 or 3 lanes in either direction. Lucky for NYC's extensive transit system that keeps the city from being completely immobilized. Freeways do work if planned and executed correctly.

[swbrotha100]

Originally Posted by elcajones

The 303 is awesome for the West Valley, who has at LA esque traffic situation due to ADOT"s neglect in improving roads and building freeways out there. It was a simply a start to the highway infrastructure the west side needs but they need a few more highways out there too.

The 24 on the other hand as it stands now is a joke. For one it's only concrete and not rubberized asphalt so you all no ADOT will ruin it with construction cones while repaving repaving before it's 5 years old. And make it a construction mess doing so for a long time like the 101 is now and 202 Red mountain.
And 2 it's only like a mile long and kind of a joke right now. Some day it will extend through Pinal County and IMO the homeowners of San Tan Valley are sitting on a gold mine regarding property value increase when that happens BUT, no extensions are even close to approved. The 24 right now is more or less just an exit ramp to Ellsworth.

Concrete lasts longer than asphalt. The only reason most of the valley freeways are paved with rubberized asphalt is to lessen the noise impact.