Light Rail Extension Brings Blight (Phoenix, Tucson: rental, live in, restaurants)

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

A lot of them can come up with $4. It’s not exactly a fortune.

A lot of people use it for the a/c. Same with City buses

To the destitute, $4 is a fortune, particularly if they would be using it often.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

If it weren't for all the potential fatalities, that would be AWESOME entertainment!

I agree with you on that!

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Light rail expansion does need to be reevaluated. Initially, the extensions from the main line were to go to the suburban areas ... primarily shopping malls like MetroCenter and Paradise Valley Mall. Now that shopping malls are pretty much dead except for the outer ring stores, there's no need to expand rail to areas that have little or no demand for ridership. I think light rail should be concentrated more to the urbanized areas of Phoenix, and maybe commuter rail can be an option from downtown to the suburban areas.

I see your point, and that's why it didn't break my heart when the line to PV Mall was nixed. Nevertheless, Proposition 105, if approved, would eliminate all the other possibilities you talk about. It's one thing to retink the expansion plan, which the city council has already done and will no doubt continue to do. It's quite another to adopt a rigid ban on any future addition of rail transit within Phoenix city limits. In fact, 105 is so broadly worded that it could even be interpreted to prevent needed capital improvements to the existing light rail line.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by timothyaw

It's been a few years since I've been to Berlin, but when I was there that was what I exclusively used to get around and all the stations used barriers. S-Bahn and D-Bahn all had barriers.

Same for Bangkok.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I see your point, and that's why it didn't break my heart when the line to PV Mall was nixed. Nevertheless, Proposition 105, if approved, would eliminate all the other possibilities you talk about. It's one thing to retink the expansion plan, which the city council has already done and will no doubt continue to do. It's quite another to adopt a rigid ban on any future addition of rail transit within Phoenix city limits. In fact, 105 is so broadly worded that it could even be interpreted to prevent needed capital improvements to the existing light rail line.

My question is: if Prop 105 passes, what happens to the already planned light rail routes, such as the one that is supposed to run west on Washington Street to the Capitol, and then in the I10 median to the west Valley? I definitely want to see the Capitol line remain as part of the expansion, but I have hesitations about having it in the I10 median.

The I10 median west of I17 has generally been an embarrassment ever since ADOT ripped out the landscaping and left a barren dirt median with an ugly wire fence in the middle! That median (and the freeway in general) needs a serious overhaul, but I think the best thing to do is add additional traffic lanes where the median is, and even consider something like HOT lanes. This would move traffic along better, and would also be less costly, than putting in a rail line.

This is why I'm mixed about light rail expansion, and also why I'm unsure how I'll vote on 105. I think we need to concentrate more on street improvements ... however, at the same time, these idiotic NIMBYs who are pushing this thing need to focus on improving their own neighborhoods first and foremost. Doesn't it seem ironic that the south Phoenix light rail opponents who are soiling their diapers about narrowing Central Avenue are the same ones whose homes/businesses aren't anything desirable to look at??? Same can be said about many other NIMBY types!

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by kytoaz

My wife used the light rail from downtown to ASU Tempe campus for 4 years and never had a single issue with anyone. I think the issue is people's irrational fear of everything.

Just like anything else, the serious incidents that have occurred on the light rail are probably few but they are enough to give commuters a reason to stay away from the light rail. A friend of mine works for the City Parks Division and he told me many of the homeless do use the light rail all the time to move around the valley because he see them wandering around different areas in the city from day to day and he recognizes them. He also said that he finds a lot of garbage and paraphernalia they dispose of, like used syringes.

Maybe your wife has been lucky so far to have never had any issues and I hope it stays that way.

[AZSunDevil83]

Originally Posted by Magnum Mike

I think the Light Rail benefited Tempe more than Phoenix mainly because of ASU. I don't know what the statistics are when it comes to Light Rail ridership to and from downtown Phoenix, but I think the economic boom we're seeing now has a lot to do with all the developments in Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa.

I also think that the development of commercial office space has shifted from downtown to other areas, like the East Camelback corridor, that seems to be the trend in other large cities also, not just Phoenix, on the other hand there has been an increase in new residential developments in downtown, but again most of the credit for that should be given to the economic boom, the light rail should be given credit for that, but not all of it.

On the last part of your post, I agree with you, a combination of light rail and commuter high-speed rail system would be a benefit to the Phoenix area but I don't think we're going to see this anytime in the near future. When I visited New York back in September of last year, I rode the commuter train (not the subway) that took me from Queens to Manhattan in about 20-30 minutes, but then again New York's mass transit system was developed long before ours was, and their traffic is much worse than ours in rush hours, especially in Manhattan.

You totally glossed over my question why you think light rail, in its current inception, is a "bad design"? From your last response, it sounds like you agree with the current neighborhoods and cities they serve. I offer the argument that commercial office space has actually "shifted" from other areas back to downtown/midtown Phoenix and other urban areas like Tempe. Sure, you will continue to have employers choose areas like Desert Ridge, Price Corridor, and other East Valley cities but since the recession, everything has been coming back in.

I'm not saying light rail is the only option why residential and employment has been booming near existing light rail lines but its signifance cannot be downplayed. Light rail is almost always cited as a reason by companies when they choose an office location, proximity and access to public transportation. There's a reason why Super Bowl, CFB Championship, and NCAA Final Four chose the Phoenix Metro area and hold all their events in downtown. You got it, access to move around events and hotels via public transportation aka light rail.

[tijlover]

Originally Posted by AZSunDevil83

Couldn't have said this better myself. Just take a look at all the cranes (and tons more in the pipeline) all over the downtown skylines of Phoenix and Tempe. Employers and businesses choose these prime and urban locations due to proximity of access to talent, public transportation, and wish to be closer to where people are living.

This is what's so overlooked with light rail, the potential development at the train stops, and, in effect, creating little mini cities. Here, in Tucson, we only have a line that goes from ASU to Menlo Park and it's amazing all the development going on along that one line.

[AZSunDevil83]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

My question is: if Prop 105 passes, what happens to the already planned light rail routes, such as the one that is supposed to run west on Washington Street to the Capitol, and then in the I10 median to the west Valley? I definitely want to see the Capitol line remain as part of the expansion, but I have hesitations about having it in the I10 median.

All already planned routes will get nixed including the Capitol Route you wish to see move forward and South Central extension. Agree with you on the I-10 median route, it should be moved up north to McDowell or Thomas. Commuter Rail should be the only thing running down the I-10 median.

Prop 105 is a really bad idea.

[kytoaz]

Originally Posted by Magnum Mike

Just like anything else, the serious incidents that have occurred on the light rail are probably few but they are enough to give commuters a reason to stay away from the light rail. A friend of mine works for the City Parks Division and he told me many of the homeless do use the light rail all the time to move around the valley because he see them wandering around different areas in the city from day to day and he recognizes them. He also said that he finds a lot of garbage and paraphernalia they dispose of, like used syringes.

Maybe your wife has been lucky so far to have never had any issues and I hope it stays that way.

I didn't say she never saw homeless people, I said she never had any issues with them. So many people act as if seeing a homeless person equates to them being in physical danger, which is generally laughable. I will say this about the expansion and prop 105. I live in south Phoenix and frequent several small shops and restaurants on central and bringing the train down central makes little sense to me. 7th st to baseline would be a much better option. Cramming the rail down an already thriving street full of local shops isn't a great idea. Light rail drives expansion, so why not put it on a street that is under-developed as opposed to hurting the already thriving stores on central?