Light Rail Extension Brings Blight (Phoenix, Mesa: 2013, credit, hotel)

[timothyaw]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I can't explain your experience, but in doing some quick reading, I see no evidence that the use of proof-of-payment systems has changed:

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-...ur-subway-fare

Thanks. I've been on several metro's in Europe, apparently Berlin I forgot they did it that way.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by timothyaw

It's been a few years since I've been to Berlin, but when I was there that was what I exclusively used to get around and all the stations used barriers. S-Bahn and D-Bahn all had barriers.

My experience in Berlin has been consistent with the following

Unlike the “Tube” in London, the Metro in Paris, BART in San Francisco, or urban rail systems in most world cities, you won’t encounter any turnstiles on the S- or U-Bahn in Germany. You don’t have to feed your ticket into a machine in order to get to your train.

You thus may be tempted to skip buying a ticket, but Germany’s “honor system” for public transport operates on the “trust but verify” principle. You never know when plain-clothes controllers will suddenly flash their badges and say the dreaded words: “Fahrkarten bitte!” (“Tickets please!”) If you get caught without a valid (stamped) ticket or pass, you’ll have to pay a fine on the spot – tourists included! The fine went up in spring 2015 from €40 to €60 (about $68 USD). Since the typical one-way fare is about €2.80, it’s really not worth the embarassment, let alone the fine.

https://www.german-way.com/travel-an...rt-in-germany/

[AZSunDevil83]

Originally Posted by Magnum Mike

Hi VN - The light rail in Phoenix is a design that was thought of in the late 1990s and voters approved it in 2000, but one of the problems now is that it's not and never will be sufficient to accommodate the needs of many motorists in the entire valley, and it would be a very costly plan to create a light rail system that would work for the entire valley mainly because of how large the Phoenix metro area has gotten. The number of people who ride the light rail (according to Wikipedia) is around 50,000 a day as of 2017, I think that figure is somewhat inflated. As of now, the light rail probably works for people who live near light rail facilities, like stops and stations and riders will have to either ride a bus, ride a bike, or walk to those facilities to get to their destinations. Overall, it works for some people but not the majority of commuters in the Phoenix area.

So you think the light rail design that goes through two (maybe 3) of the most dense, urban populated areas of the entire Valley is incorrect? Downtown Phoenix would not be what it is today if it weren't for light rail and ASU Downtown. Michael Crow has said that light rail was the impetus to make the move. Downtown Tempe has become a true 2nd urban center and tens of millions are dollars are being pumped in downtown Mesa. I agree that light rail doesn't serve the majority of commuters in Phoenix but that's not its purpose. For example, I agree that having light rail run down the I-10 is a horrible idea. Reaching the far flung areas of the Valley would be better served by commuter rail. Phoenix and Maricopa County keep growing and growing and "potholes" on streets will be the least of our concerns when traffic gets worse and grid lock inevitably occurs. It would behoove Phoenix (and its citizens) to plan for the future and have a well-thought out and planned transporstation system which has multiple modes of moving people around (ie, light rail, heavy rail, bus, and BRT).

[kytoaz]

Originally Posted by Magnum Mike

As some mentioned here, one major problem with the Blight Rail are the homeless, many of whom are in the situation because of addictions to drugs and alcohol and many light rail riders stopped using it because of the problems those troubled individuals are causing.

My wife used the light rail from downtown to ASU Tempe campus for 4 years and never had a single issue with anyone. I think the issue is people's irrational fear of everything.

[kytoaz]

The benefits of light rail cannot be quantified by ridership alone. It's a fact that cities with light rail and other good, reliable forms of public transportation have a leg up when it comes to drawing major employers. This leads to tax revenue and employment and population increases.

[AZSunDevil83]

Originally Posted by kytoaz

The benefits of light rail cannot be quantified by ridership alone. It's a fact that cities with light rail and other good, reliable forms of public transportation have a leg up when it comes to drawing major employers. This leads to tax revenue and employment and population increases.

Couldn't have said this better myself. Just take a look at all the cranes (and tons more in the pipeline) all over the downtown skylines of Phoenix and Tempe. Employers and businesses choose these prime and urban locations due to proximity of access to talent, public transportation, and wish to be closer to where people are living.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

When my car was in the shop, I decided to ride the light rail for a week. Horrible, horrible decision. The final straw was when a homeless man sat next to me, with visible urine all over his pants. Not urine stains (past tense)...actual wet sweatpants soaked in urine. Oh yeah, I almost forgot about the guy with fresh blood all over his knuckles and shirt who was touching everything...getting his blood everywhere. Wow. I'd had enough.

Now to my point. After riding for a week, I would take an educated guess of approximately 80% of people that ride the light rail have no reliable transportation themselves. The vast majority were homeless or people going to work fast food or janitorial jobs that can't afford to live where they work. And I rode this thing all they way from Dunlop/19th to the Priest station in Tempe (so my observations are not based on a small segment).

That being said, I'm not sure traffic would be a mess because most of these people don't drive anyway. Just my observations, but I think they are pretty solid.

That's an extreme example. I have used the light rail many times both during commuter hours and on weekends and evenings, and have never seen what you saw. I don't think you can make a guess about "80 percent not having reliable transportation". Some don't own a car at all, some have only one car in the family so that someone has to use public transit, some get subsidized fare on public transit, (no way I could operate my car for a month for the maximum of what I pay for subsidized transit) and leave the car at home or a park and ride, some just prefer the convenience and like to avoid paying not just for running their vehicle, but for parking. Some may have to limit the amount they drive, particularly long distances due to age and reliability of their vehicle, yes. Having used public transit for decades, not just a week, I would definitely challenge your 80 percent assumption.

[yukon]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

My question is -- after having lived in D.C. with its Metro Rail, and Bangkok with its Skytrain and subway...how is it that the truly down and out have the money in Phoenix to ride metro when that basically didn't happen elsewhere. Are there that many homeless people patronizing light rail? I'm not quite sure that seems very logical.

I can't answer for PHX rail, but if PHX rail is like Salt Lake City's rail, it's easy to ride the train and never pay. There are no turnstiles, ticket takers or any train staff on board checking tickets.

[yukon]

Originally Posted by kytoaz

The benefits of light rail cannot be quantified by ridership alone. It's a fact that cities with light rail and other good, reliable forms of public transportation have a leg up when it comes to drawing major employers. This leads to tax revenue and employment and population increases.

Dallas is a very good example of this. Light rail connects the airport and major concentrated employment centers in the city.

[yukon]

Originally Posted by Magnum Mike

I won't go into to many details about what solutions I have in mind, but one is replacing traffic lights at many major intersections with roundabouts.

Oh gawd, please, no roundabouts. Most US drivers don't know how to use them.