Light Rail Extension Brings Blight (Phoenix, Gilbert: move, train, design)

[yukon]

Originally Posted by Magnum Mike

I am aware of the funds that were already allocated for the street improvements, 105 will reallocate more funds for the street improvements, instead of using them on expansion projects for this costly and poorly designed light rail system that we have.

Voting to reallocate is one thing. Voting on a prop that will permanently ban future development is being short-sighted. It's a poorly written bill IMO.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Magnum Mike

Secondly, as I mentioned before, light rail is not suitable for Phoenix mainly because it serves a limited number of areas and that will continue to be the case with the south central expansion. Ridership on the light rail isn't anywhere near what they expected because nobody wants to ride it for many reasons. Here's a picture that I took recently at the Park & Ride parking lot at the 19th Ave & Dunlap station, this was around 3 PM on Tuesday afternoon. The parking lot was only about 25-30% full.

Light rail ridership has consistently exceeded forecasts since passenger service started in 2008. The 2020 ridership goal was actually attained several years ago, around 2015. A whole lot of "nobody," most them paying their fares and going to work, school, errands, or events, use the train every day. The "limited number of areas" it serves includes major employment centers, university campuses, event venues, cultural attractions, an international airport, and other destinations that attract large numbers of passengers.

One photo of a park-and-ride, particularly one taken in July when school is not in session and many people are on vacation, doesn't say much. Also, it's important to understand that park-and-rides, while important, are not the biggest contributor to overall ridership. Many passengers connect to light rail via buses, bicycles, rideshare, walking, and dropoff by friends and family. If a park-and-ride is underutilized, it's a potential opportunity to redevelop land near a station and not necessarily a sign of failure.

Of course, light rail will never go everywhere, and it shouldn't. It's high-capacity transit suitable for selected portions of the metro area. It works together with buses, neighborhood circulators, bicycles, scooters, rideshare, private cars, and other last-mile options. A balanced transportation plan considers all those modes. Proposition 105 would throw Phoenix out of balance by completely eliminating any prospect of future rail expansion, whether light rail or commuter trains.

Finally, there is a plan for rail in the 1-10 corridor. The planned Capitol / 1-10 West extension would essentially be light rail operating as commuter rail. After running on city streets near the state government buildings, the trains would travel in the 1-10 median until around 47th Avenue, where they would switch to an alignment on the north side of the freeway. That sounds a lot like what you want, but it won't happen if Proposition 105 is approved.

[AZSunDevil83]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Light rail ridership has consistently exceeded forecasts since passenger service started in 2008. The 2020 ridership goal was actually attained several years ago, around 2015. A whole lot of "nobody," most them paying their fares and going to work, school, errands, or events, use the train every day. The "limited number of areas" it serves includes major employment centers, university campuses, event venues, cultural attractions, an international airport, and other destinations that attract large numbers of passengers.

One photo of a park-and-ride, particularly one taken in July when school is not in session and many people are on vacation, doesn't say much. Also, it's important to understand that park-and-rides, while important, are not the biggest contributor to overall ridership. Many passengers connect to light rail via buses, bicycles, rideshare, walking, and dropoff by friends and family. If a park-and-ride is underutilized, it's a potential opportunity to redevelop land near a station and not necessarily a sign of failure.

Of course, light rail will never go everywhere, and it shouldn't. It's high-capacity transit suitable for selected portions of the metro area. It works together with buses, neighborhood circulators, bicycles, scooters, rideshare, private cars, and other last-mile options. A balanced transportation plan considers all those modes. Proposition 105 would throw Phoenix out of balance by completely eliminating any prospect of future rail expansion, whether light rail or commuter trains.

Finally, there is a plan for rail in the 1-10 corridor. The planned Capitol / 1-10 West extension would essentially be light rail operating as commuter rail. After running on city streets near the state government buildings, the trains would travel in the 1-10 median until around 47th Avenue, where they would switch to an alignment on the north side of the freeway. That sounds a lot like what you want, but it won't happen if Proposition 105 is approved.

This 100%. Thank you for the insightful post.

The poster appears to be conflicted as to the reasons why he's voting "Yes" on it but everything he believes and states about light rail opposition is unequivocally false.

[gliu953]

I support rail transit and I will vote against this crazy scheme to stop it.
Phoenix is growing fast and we need a good comprehensive mass transit system to keep up with the growth. Having just bus service, streets, and freeways that need constant maintaining and widening aren't enough for a big city like this.
The poster that suggested roundabouts replacing traffic lights, I can't believe anything so crazy is considered. Roundabouts might be good for rural areas with less traffic but they are dangerous and aren't fit for city streets.

[gliu953]

I support having a centralized city and I disagree with the posters that favor more roads and everything in the suburbs.
I live at 16th and Highland in what could be called Central Phoenix but my job is at 101 and Elliot in South Tempe. I travel mostly by freeways but my daily commute is long and sometimes slow if there is heavy traffic or accidents.
I'd love for my job to be in Downtown Phoenix or close to my apartment so I don't have to drive so much. I could take transit to work if I wanted to and walk to a store or restaurant on a lunch break. Where I work requires more driving just to get a bite to eat.
This vote to stop rail transit is a big step backward for Phoenix.

[gliu953]

@AndyDwyer480
I hear the same complaints about lots of other areas too, they attract homeless, druggies, and society's lower elements.
But those other areas aren't anywhere near light rail, they're just bad areas.
Have you seen the north side of Tempe above the 202? It's blight city with all the run-down buildings but no light rail there.
Rail transit attracts people of all kinds including hard-working people that don't prefer driving their own cars. Have you considered that fact?

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by gliu953

I support having a centralized city and I disagree with the posters that favor more roads and everything in the suburbs.
I live at 16th and Highland in what could be called Central Phoenix but my job is at 101 and Elliot in South Tempe. I travel mostly by freeways but my daily commute is long and sometimes slow if there is heavy traffic or accidents.
I'd love for my job to be in Downtown Phoenix or close to my apartment so I don't have to drive so much. I could take transit to work if I wanted to and walk to a store or restaurant on a lunch break. Where I work requires more driving just to get a bite to eat.
This vote to stop rail transit is a big step backward for Phoenix.

Exactly! Having a centralized workforce in large urban centers is an American tradition. I live in east central Phoenix and commute to downtown Tempe, which is an urban center of its own, so my commute isn't as bad as yours. Still, it would be great to have more corporations based in or near downtown Phoenix instead of in office parks scattered all over the place where commuting options are limited. Contrary to what others have claimed, a decentralized workforce doesn't make for easier traffic ... all it does is increase traffic in suburban areas that are supposed to be less congested.

As far as Prop. 105 is concerned, I would rather see street improvements take priority over light rail ... however, after weighing all the pros & cons, I'm also voting against it because we already voted several times on this in the past. It's a waste of time to keep voting on something which Phoenix residents clearly voted in favor of before. Besides, there is absolutely no guarantee 105 will accelerate street improvements. After all, the last proposition included a provision for that, but many streets around Phoenix are still in dire need of upgrades & resurfacing.

[Prickly Pear]

I'm convinced anyone voting Yes on Prop 105 has never driven anywhere outside of Phoenix. Or they transplanted so long ago they forgot now, and keep buying the car dealerships' lobbying. Just take a 2 hour drive down to Tucson, you'll realize our roads are pretty pristine. Especially in comparison to other major cities.

It should concern you how much we pay for road maintenance that some of us (not me) feel the need to vote against other projects for it. We should not be widening or building any more freeways, it will only make that number grow exponentially. And roads should not be widened.

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

Just take a 2 hour drive down to Tucson, you'll realize our roads are pretty pristine. Especially in comparison to other major cities.

Having lived in Tucson for 7 years and being somewhat of a road geek, that was one of my major things I was envious of the Phoeinx metroplex, their roads, both surface streets and freeway systems.

Now living back on the east coast and having driven in places like Philly, NYC, Boston, Baltimore, DC, Atlanta, etc. numerous times, I love coming back to the Valley and driving around the metroplex, it is a joy, can't wait for the new South Mountain freeway to open soon.

[WSPHXPELON]

Just saw this article how the Koch brothers may be influencing the Phoenix lightrail. Pretty interesting...Any opinions on this?

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/09/...il-in-phoenix/