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Hi VN - There were pros and cons to the light rain but in the last 10 years we've seen more problems with it than benefits. Residents who are far from the light rail don't see the problems, my house is not too far from the light rail in north Phoenix, off 20th Ave south of Dunlap and we've seen the problems that were created since that section of light rail started operating, mainly with the homeless who stay close to the light rail station on 19th Ave & Dunlap. In fact somebody broke into my house in October of 2016 and stole a few things, including my wallet and that person used my debit card to purchase a light rail pass from the ticket kiosk at the station on 19th Ave & Dunlap. As I mentioned before, I'm not a NIMBY and I didn't mind seeing the light rail on 19th Ave but the problems that it brought with it, which the city of Phoenix failed to control is what's making me disgusted with it. If you experienced those problems I'm sure you'd feel the same way also.
Again, people/voters who live far away from the light rail don't see these problems, but we do. Also, the way the city planned it has caused more problems than it solved. Drive on 19th Ave or Central Ave and look at the traffic back up problems that it caused with the unnecessary number of lights they added, and the difficulty of access to businesses. I used to go to Albertson's on the northeast corner of 19th Ave & Northern and it was much easier to get into the parking lot when going southbound on 19th Ave, with the light rail in place now and those high curbs that blocked access to Albertson's, I'd have to sit and wait in a long line in the left turn lane on 19th Ave & Northern and make a u-turn to get into the parking lot, sometimes I'd have to sit through one or two red left turn arrows before making the u-turn. You mentioned in a previous message that if the "NIMBYs" don't like it, they should move, well that may be possible for some people but in most cases that may not be an option, especially for home owners who invested a lot in their property.
As far as ridership, I'll have to disagree with you, it started out fairly well but ridership declined significantly since it started operating 10 years ago. Right now about 50,000 people ride the light rail, most likely people who don't own automobiles. https://www.azcentral.com/in-depth/n...ix/2144400002/
Overall, light rail is very expensive with no benefits to us who don't use it, and it only benefits a small percentage of Phoenix's population. That's why it should be left as is and spend tax payers money on a more effective plan to improve the transportation infrastructure that will benefit the entire city, and that's a lot more than just fixing potholes in the streets.
I live near 3rd Ave and Roosevelt and I'm voting "No" of course. I'm in the heart of the city and its problem but I'm not too naive or ignorant to blame the issues of mental health/illness and homeless on a silly train lol Roosevelt Arts District was full of crackheads before light rail was even an idea. I think people kid themselves of where they may live and problems that existed before but chose to ignore them or put blinders on. And once light rail arrived, they found their convenient scapegoat.
Sure there are cons w/ the light rail but the positives I've personally experienced far outweight the negatives. $11 billion in private and public investment has sprouted within a half mile of the light-rail line since 2008. That means jobs in centrally located corridors like downtown/midtown and some to Tempe. This benefits EVERYONE not just a "select" few. As for the YoY decline of ridership numbers, 2017 was artificially more due to NCAA Final Four activities/events all over downtown. With the thousands of apartments in the pipeline to be under construction along with office space in midtown, downtown, and Tempe, expect ridership to exponentially increase over the years. Build the South Central extension, and guess what, ridership is going up and the Warehouse District will blow up. Phoenix is the 5th largest city in the US so it's time to start acting like a big boy city and getting decent public tranporstation and infrastructure in place.
I'm not a NIMBY and I don't mind having a light rail system in Phoenix, as long as it provides noticeable benefits to the city and its citizens, and not just a small portion of the population. From what I've seen so far the City of Phoenix has mismanaged the project and it has cost tax payers more than what was anticipated. My next door neighbor works for the City Parks Department and he knows all about the wasteful ways Phoenix does things. The cost of the south Central extension was originally estimated at around $500 million, now we're hearing that it'll cost tax payers over $1 billion. I get disgusted every time I see a sales receipt with the sales tax amount on it which was increased not too long ago. I don't see any benefits of paying higher taxes for something that I'm never going to use.
I don't have a firm opinion on Phoenix's light rail system, but this idea of I have a friend who knows everything about is worthless. As a retired school principal I heard that line so often, and usually the "local authority on everything" actually knew practically nothing except rumors.
Hi VN - There were pros and cons to the light rain but in the last 10 years we've seen more problems with it than benefits. Residents who are far from the light rail don't see the problems, my house is not too far from the light rail in north Phoenix, off 20th Ave south of Dunlap and we've seen the problems that were created since that section of light rail started operating, mainly with the homeless who stay close to the light rail station on 19th Ave & Dunlap. In fact somebody broke into my house in October of 2016 and stole a few things, including my wallet and that person used my debit card to purchase a light rail pass from the ticket kiosk at the station on 19th Ave & Dunlap. As I mentioned before, I'm not a NIMBY and I didn't mind seeing the light rail on 19th Ave but the problems that it brought with it, which the city of Phoenix failed to control is what's making me disgusted with it. If you experienced those problems I'm sure you'd feel the same way also.
I understand the problems as well as the benefits, and I never was a huge proponent of light rail for different reasons. If the light rail and the associated stations are attracting more undesirables, the problem is with the city and Valley Metro for not addressing the problems. I've ridden the light rail a few times, and what I noticed is the security tends to be rather lax. Many people board the trains without paying the fares, so this allows for derelicts to ride for free.
The issue I have is with blaming the light rail directly for the blight & homeless problems. Maryvale and parts of south Phoenix have a lot of this, and light rail doesn't go anywhere near those areas as of now. But both Maryvale & south Phoenix tend to be lower income & higher crime areas, so naturally they're going to have more blight & undesirables for those reasons more than a location like north Scottsdale.
As for the light rail on 19th Avenue, I always wondered why they picked that street for a rail line when a good part of it is residential/retail ... not anything like midtown or downtown where the demand would be higher. If I recall, the original plan was to take the line further west on Dunlap to Metrocenter, but since Metrocenter and many other similar malls have become empty shells, I don't see what the purpose of that would be. Overall, I think the concept of light rail is good for Phoenix in general, but the expansion plans need a serious overhaul. Keep light rail in the higher demand urban areas, not extended to suburban shopping malls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Mike
Again, people/voters who live far away from the light rail don't see these problems, but we do. Also, the way the city planned it has caused more problems than it solved. Drive on 19th Ave or Central Ave and look at the traffic back up problems that it caused with the unnecessary number of lights they added, and the difficulty of access to businesses. I used to go to Albertson's on the northeast corner of 19th Ave & Northern and it was much easier to get into the parking lot when going southbound on 19th Ave, with the light rail in place now and those high curbs that blocked access to Albertson's, I'd have to sit and wait in a long line in the left turn lane on 19th Ave & Northern and make a u-turn to get into the parking lot, sometimes I'd have to sit through one or two red left turn arrows before making the u-turn. You mentioned in a previous message that if the "NIMBYs" don't like it, they should move, well that may be possible for some people but in most cases that may not be an option, especially for home owners who invested a lot in their property.
The problem I have with NIMBYs is their opposition to practically everything, not just light rail or transit. They have been a thorn in Phoenix's side for many years, dating back to the 1960s & 1970s when they were adamantly opposed to freeways. Thanks largely to them putting a halt to freeways all those years ago, we had serious gridlock issues well into the 1980s, and we fell behind other cities that already had a decent freeway system. Tucson is facing a similar problem right now with traffic/gridlock because the stupid NIMBYs down there didn't want any crosstown freeways. NIMBYs are also opposed to highrises, which is one reason why our skyline is dwarfed compared to other cities our size. Whenever something major & enticing is proposed by a private developer, NIMBYs will meddle and try to stop it. They're basically the kind of people who like to make waves, but offer few positive solutions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Mike
As far as ridership, I'll have to disagree with you, it started out fairly well but ridership declined significantly since it started operating 10 years ago. Right now about 50,000 people ride the light rail, most likely people who don't own automobiles. https://www.azcentral.com/in-depth/n...ix/2144400002/
The only times I rode the light rail was when I went downtown ... one of which was last year, and I will say that the train I was on had lots of riders. Not only that, but I found that taking the rail downtown is much easier than maneuvering on the streets and dealing with the parking issues. On the other hand, if I'm running errands in my own neighborhood or commuting to work, taking light rail or a bus wouldn't be convenient. So light rail has its advantages if it's readily available for somebody who wants to use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Mike
Overall, light rail is very expensive with no benefits to us who don't use it, and it only benefits a small percentage of Phoenix's population. That's why it should be left as is and spend tax payers money on a more effective plan to improve the transportation infrastructure that will benefit the entire city, and that's a lot more than just fixing potholes in the streets.
I'd be more willing to vote for 105 to put street repairs and other transportation issues ahead of light rail, except for one thing, and that is 105 will stop any and all expansion of rail in the future if it's passed. While I agree that fixing streets should be a priority, I just think 105's purpose of stopping all light rail expansion goes too far ... especially since Phoenix voters clearly voted in favor of expansion several times previously. I also didn't like the way it was spearheaded by the vocal group of south Phoenix NIMBYs who not only want to stop the rail from going on south Central Avenue, but everywhere else too.
everywhere the light rail goes, the local businesses suffer, look at Camelback rd, large sections were destroyed by the light rail, they are nothing more than parking lots now, places that used to be easy to get to are much more difficult to get to, not being able to make left turns only at certain areas and the loss of travel lanes mean auto traffic is heavier. There are parts of downtown where it might make sense to have something like light rail, but for no, it is a billion dollar waste of money.
everywhere the light rail goes, the local businesses suffer, look at Camelback rd, large sections were destroyed by the light rail, they are nothing more than parking lots now, places that used to be easy to get to are much more difficult to get to, not being able to make left turns only at certain areas and the loss of travel lanes mean auto traffic is heavier. There are parts of downtown where it might make sense to have something like light rail, but for no, it is a billion dollar waste of money.
The section of Camelback from Central to 19th Avenue was not doing well even before light rail construction started.It's still not a great area, but there are some hopeful signs in terms of new senior housing around 17th Avenue, a new hotel under construction at 5th Avenue, and the Newton development at 3rd Avenue. West Camelback still has a long way to go, but there is no basis for blaming its challenges on light rail, and it's beginning to improve.
I live near 3rd Ave and Roosevelt and I'm voting "No" of course. I'm in the heart of the city and its problem but I'm not too naive or ignorant to blame the issues of mental health/illness and homeless on a silly train lol Roosevelt Arts District was full of crackheads before light rail was even an idea. I think people kid themselves of where they may live and problems that existed before but chose to ignore them or put blinders on. And once light rail arrived, they found their convenient scapegoat.
Sure there are cons w/ the light rail but the positives I've personally experienced far outweight the negatives. $11 billion in private and public investment has sprouted within a half mile of the light-rail line since 2008. That means jobs in centrally located corridors like downtown/midtown and some to Tempe. This benefits EVERYONE not just a "select" few. As for the YoY decline of ridership numbers, 2017 was artificially more due to NCAA Final Four activities/events all over downtown. With the thousands of apartments in the pipeline to be under construction along with office space in midtown, downtown, and Tempe, expect ridership to exponentially increase over the years. Build the South Central extension, and guess what, ridership is going up and the Warehouse District will blow up. Phoenix is the 5th largest city in the US so it's time to start acting like a big boy city and getting decent public tranporstation and infrastructure in place.
I'm afraid you misinterpreted what I mentioned previously, I never blamed the light rail for what you referred to as "mental health/illness and homeless", and I might add drug addicts that seem to be causing problems on the light rail. I blamed the city of Phoenix for their poor planning and lack of action in many ways to keep the homeless population under control and keep those individuals away from the light rail and in neighborhoods, and to be honest, for the most part it's a complex problem that cannot be solved by the city alone. That's an entirely different topic.
Yes, we've seen an increase in the homeless who roam around our neighborhood and this is due to the close proximity of the light rail. But, it's already in place and the best we can do is take proper action to keep such individuals away from the neighborhood, which is something all of us are doing currently to keep the homeless away from the neighborhood. And let's face it, you won't see any or too many of those people in any neighborhoods that are further away from a light rail line.
everywhere the light rail goes, the local businesses suffer, look at Camelback rd, large sections were destroyed by the light rail, they are nothing more than parking lots now, places that used to be easy to get to are much more difficult to get to, not being able to make left turns only at certain areas and the loss of travel lanes mean auto traffic is heavier. There are parts of downtown where it might make sense to have something like light rail, but for no, it is a billion dollar waste of money.
I agree with you, and the light rail stretch on 19th Ave has caused many businesses to disappear or move away. O'Reilly Auto Parts, that used to be on the northeast corner of 19th Ave & Northern (about 1/4 of a mile north of Northern) has closed or moved away long before that section of the light rail opened and most likely because it blocked access to it from the southbound lanes of 19th Ave, that building sits empty now, I've also seen other businesses that were in the same shopping center near Albertson's disappear. That's one aspect of the poor planning by the city. There are other such instances on the 19th Ave stretch north of Camelback because customers have a hard time getting into those parking lots.
I understand the problems as well as the benefits, and I never was a huge proponent of light rail for different reasons. If the light rail and the associated stations are attracting more undesirables, the problem is with the city and Valley Metro for not addressing the problems. I've ridden the light rail a few times, and what I noticed is the security tends to be rather lax. Many people board the trains without paying the fares, so this allows for derelicts to ride for free.
The issue I have is with blaming the light rail directly for the blight & homeless problems. Maryvale and parts of south Phoenix have a lot of this, and light rail doesn't go anywhere near those areas as of now. But both Maryvale & south Phoenix tend to be lower income & higher crime areas, so naturally they're going to have more blight & undesirables for those reasons more than a location like north Scottsdale.
As for the light rail on 19th Avenue, I always wondered why they picked that street for a rail line when a good part of it is residential/retail ... not anything like midtown or downtown where the demand would be higher. If I recall, the original plan was to take the line further west on Dunlap to Metrocenter, but since Metrocenter and many other similar malls have become empty shells, I don't see what the purpose of that would be. Overall, I think the concept of light rail is good for Phoenix in general, but the expansion plans need a serious overhaul. Keep light rail in the higher demand urban areas, not extended to suburban shopping malls.
The only times I rode the light rail was when I went downtown ... one of which was last year, and I will say that the train I was on had lots of riders. Not only that, but I found that taking the rail downtown is much easier than maneuvering on the streets and dealing with the parking issues. On the other hand, if I'm running errands in my own neighborhood or commuting to work, taking light rail or a bus wouldn't be convenient. So light rail has its advantages if it's readily available for somebody who wants to use it.
I'd be more willing to vote for 105 to put street repairs and other transportation issues ahead of light rail, except for one thing, and that is 105 will stop any and all expansion of rail in the future if it's passed. While I agree that fixing streets should be a priority, I just think 105's purpose of stopping all light rail expansion goes too far ... especially since Phoenix voters clearly voted in favor of expansion several times previously. I also didn't like the way it was spearheaded by the vocal group of south Phoenix NIMBYs who not only want to stop the rail from going on south Central Avenue, but everywhere else too.
I think most people approved the light rail in 2000 and they didn't anticipate the problems that we see with it now, which is a shame because it could have been a much better system if the city had planned it properly, but then again, government and proper planning are 2 words that usually don't mix together. I admit, some areas of the city have benefited somewhat from the presense of the light rail, which is the Central Corridor, and as I mentioned previously, the increased construction of multi-use mid-rise and high-rise buildings in the Central Corridor is due mostly to the economic boom we're seeing now. For the most part, the poor planning by the city has caused more problems with the light rail than it solved. You'd have to be a resident in one of the neighborhoods near the light rail to understand where I'm coming from.
You probably rode the light rail when there was an event at a downtown venue, and I'm sure a lot of people, including myself, would prefer to park their vehicles at Park Central then use the light rail to go to one of those events downtown. I've never ridden the light rail and if I worked in the downtown/Central Corridor, I would most likely ride the Rapid/Express bus from the Metro Center Park & Ride, it's one of many such locations where commuters can park their vehicles and ride to downtown, it's much faster than the light rail, and it's one of the items (alternatives to light rail) mentioned in Prop 105 that will help and it can easily be improved because it's much cheaper than the light rail.
I sent in my early ballot on 105 and 106 last week and debating this topic would be like beating a dead horse. Prop 105 does have a couple of gray areas and I know it's not a solution for all the problems with transportation in Phoenix, but overall, I see a lot more reasons to vote Yes on it than No. It is to tell the city to stop wasting tax payer Dollars on a very expensive light rail system that has very few benefits to a small percentage of the people who live in Phoenix. I just don't see any benefits in continuing to fund something that I and the majority of others will never use. I want the city to spend the money more wisely and address the other issues with the transportation infrastructure that affect the majority of people who drive.
The Phoenix metro area is not conducive to a light rail system mainly because it's too spread out and a clear majority of commuters, now and in the future, are/will be motorists. The light rail that we have in place right now is sufficient and it should be fine for the small percentage of commuters who prefer to ride it. I depend on my own vehicles for transportation over the vast expanse of the Phoenix area and if somebody wants to convince me to sell my truck and SUV, sell my house that's already paid for, then move to Central Ave near downtown and use the light rail for transportation, sorry that doesn't work for me, it probably works for others and that's fine with me. There are also better and more cost-effective ways to attract business and development to the Central Corridor/downtown and other areas, light rail is not one of them.
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I admit, some areas of the city have benefited somewhat from the presense of the light rail, which is the Central Corridor, and as I mentioned previously, the increased construction of multi-use mid-rise and high-rise buildings in the Central Corridor is due mostly to the economic boom we're seeing now. For the most part, the poor planning by the city has caused more problems with the light rail than it solved. You'd have to be a resident in one of the neighborhoods near the light rail to understand where I'm coming from. 
