Light Rail Extension Brings Blight (Phoenix, Tucson: hotels, homes, landscaping)

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by yukon

I can't answer for PHX rail, but if PHX rail is like Salt Lake City's rail, it's easy to ride the train and never pay. There are no turnstiles, ticket takers or any train staff on board checking tickets.

If you can't speak for our light rail then don't. Having your ticket checked is a common occurrence.

[Rogarven]

Originally Posted by yukon

Dallas is a very good example of this. Light rail connects the airport and major concentrated employment centers in the city.

Last week, I rode the DART from DFW to the SMU area hotel. For $1.50 (senior rate) it was the best thing since sliced bread. There was a ticket checker on board as the rail goes right through the middle of downtown. One homeless looking fellow got kicked off by an ticket taker but it worked great taking both business people and students to their destinations. Too bad that DART does not go direct to Love Field ( connecting bus will do that).

BTW, my colleagues that took taxis and Lyft paid $45 and $35 dollars for the same transportation. They may have beat me by 15 minutes.

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by observer53

That's an extreme example. I have used the light rail many times both during commuter hours and on weekends and evenings, and have never seen what you saw. I don't think you can make a guess about "80 percent not having reliable transportation". Some don't own a car at all, some have only one car in the family so that someone has to use public transit, some get subsidized fare on public transit, (no way I could operate my car for a month for the maximum of what I pay for subsidized transit) and leave the car at home or a park and ride, some just prefer the convenience and like to avoid paying not just for running their vehicle, but for parking. Some may have to limit the amount they drive, particularly long distances due to age and reliability of their vehicle, yes. Having used public transit for decades, not just a week, I would definitely challenge your 80 percent assumption.

I wasn't trying to present this as canon. I said they were my observations based on one week of riding during commuter times. Call them extreme examples if you want, but this occurred during a one week period. And my examples were just two of about fifteen disgusting things I saw during my rides. And say what you want, but the vast majority of people with any type of means don't ride the light rail...they just don't.

[BIG CATS]

Crap like this is why Im glad Scottsdale gives Blight Rail the middle finger. Too many bums exist in the Valley, and its nice to see them in minimal numbers in Scottsdale. You all know how bad it would be if rail service was extended to Scottsdale!

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by WSPHXPELON

I've never been to DC or Bangkok, but take into account the here in PHX the lightrail has no turnstiles or any way to enforce payment other that security boarding and occasionally checking tickets.

Then that is something that needs to be dealt with.

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by AZSunDevil83

So you think the light rail design that goes through two (maybe 3) of the most dense, urban populated areas of the entire Valley is incorrect? Downtown Phoenix would not be what it is today if it weren't for light rail and ASU Downtown. Michael Crow has said that light rail was the impetus to make the move. Downtown Tempe has become a true 2nd urban center and tens of millions are dollars are being pumped in downtown Mesa. I agree that light rail doesn't serve the majority of commuters in Phoenix but that's not its purpose. For example, I agree that having light rail run down the I-10 is a horrible idea. Reaching the far flung areas of the Valley would be better served by commuter rail. Phoenix and Maricopa County keep growing and growing and "potholes" on streets will be the least of our concerns when traffic gets worse and grid lock inevitably occurs. It would behoove Phoenix (and its citizens) to plan for the future and have a well-thought out and planned transporstation system which has multiple modes of moving people around (ie, light rail, heavy rail, bus, and BRT).

I think the Light Rail benefited Tempe more than Phoenix mainly because of ASU. I don't know what the statistics are when it comes to Light Rail ridership to and from downtown Phoenix, but I think the economic boom we're seeing now has a lot to do with all the developments in Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa.

I also think that the development of commercial office space has shifted from downtown to other areas, like the East Camelback corridor, that seems to be the trend in other large cities also, not just Phoenix, on the other hand there has been an increase in new residential developments in downtown, but again most of the credit for that should be given to the economic boom, the light rail should be given credit for that, but not all of it.

On the last part of your post, I agree with you, a combination of light rail and commuter high-speed rail system would be a benefit to the Phoenix area but I don't think we're going to see this anytime in the near future. When I visited New York back in September of last year, I rode the commuter train (not the subway) that took me from Queens to Manhattan in about 20-30 minutes, but then again New York's mass transit system was developed long before ours was, and their traffic is much worse than ours in rush hours, especially in Manhattan.

[asufan]

People are arguing but both sides may be right. Light rail can ease traffic congestion and help property values and desirability in areas that were previously blighted. It also can be a means for homeless people to have access to your neighborhood where previously they didn't. It's definitely something to keep in mind when deciding if you want it extended into your area. I am generally pro light rail but it's no secret it attracts a lot of bad with the good.

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by yukon

Oh gawd, please, no roundabouts. Most US drivers don't know how to use them.

They'll learn.

[AZSunDevil83]

Originally Posted by yukon

I can't answer for PHX rail, but if PHX rail is like Salt Lake City's rail, it's easy to ride the train and never pay. There are no turnstiles, ticket takers or any train staff on board checking tickets.

I flew into SLC for the Utah vs ASU game in 2013 and took light rail into downtown. Half way through, my ticket was checked. Not only that, I was almost given a ticket for using Reduced Fare option instead of Full lol. Nice try...

[Valley Native]

Light rail expansion does need to be reevaluated. Initially, the extensions from the main line were to go to the suburban areas ... primarily shopping malls like MetroCenter and Paradise Valley Mall. Now that shopping malls are pretty much dead except for the outer ring stores, there's no need to expand rail to areas that have little or no demand for ridership. I think light rail should be concentrated more to the urbanized areas of Phoenix, and maybe commuter rail can be an option from downtown to the suburban areas.

I've always been a critic about how light rail supposedly spurs development, which we have strong evidence that it does no such thing all by itself. Downtown Phoenix and Tempe have improved & developed due to a combination of other efforts besides light rail. One thing light rail has done is improve the quality/aesthetics of the streets where the current line is. Other than that, it attracts the same kind of characters that buses do. This is a shame because there are many decent people who ride buses and light rail, but the derelicts add a trash factor to the service.

One thing I'll say to the opponents who call it "blight rail": I don't really disagree with this, but there are many other areas which aren't served by light rail that have just as much (if not more) blight than what's found along the rail line. Central Avenue south of downtown, parts of south Phoenix, and much of Maryvale/west Phoenix: these are prime examples of blighted areas, and light rail doesn't go anywhere near these districts. You want to get rid of blight? Focus on revitalizing these areas!