Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway is OPEN! (home, purchasing, luxury)

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

I can't think of any areas in the Valley that will be truly dead quiet. It's a huge, sprawling metropolis. If you want silence, move out to the desert.

Exactly! It all comes down to a bunch of malcontents & NIMBYs complaining about everything that will upset "their" tranquility, "their" views, or "their" lifestyle. I agree 100% with your comments: if they're bothered by noise, and want complete peace & quiet, they should move to a remote rural area or a small town far away from Phoenix! Of course, the NIMBYs will claim that they moved to Ahwatukee Foothills because it's tucked away from a good part of the city ... however, as long as it's part of the fast growing, ever expanding metro area, complete tranquility is simply not possible.

Originally Posted by PhoenixSomeday

That's exactly the problem with toll roads and bridges. The promise is always that the toll will go away once it's paid for, but then the toll always stays, outside of any voter intervention, because then it's "oh, uh, maintenance. and, like, stuff. or whatever. gimme." Those "toll will go away" statements cannot be trusted.

I know what you mean, and I completely understand the opposition to toll roads for this reason. Keep in mind that the concept of toll roads is actually a brilliant idea because it avoids taxation and government involvement for the most part. Unfortunately, the current system of relying on the slow, incompetent ADOT & MAG to build these freeways isn't working. 16 years after the voters extended the half cent tax, we still don't have any movement on the Tres Rios Freeway (30), and very little has been accomplished on the Gateway Freeway (24). Going back even further, we still don't have a full fledged freeway system that was originally promised in 1985 due to some routes being axed.

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Interesting, I used to literally live next to the 202 Red Mountain and 24th St, and I didn't hear freeway noise at all. I guess the soundwall there is better?

We are about a mile and a half away from the 202 to the North of us and can hear it just fine..not annoying or anything, just ambient noise. I-10 is a few miles away but across open desert. We can hear it and the Friday Night Drags at Wildhorse. Again, not annoying but it is there.

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by ShampooBanana

Isn't that a paradox? Seems like something Yogi Berra would say. "It's so quiet I can hear the deafening sound of the traffic."

Seems kind of dumb to me. It's a major metro area of nearly 5 million people. You are going to hear noises in any part of a major city, whether it be traffic noise, airplanes and helicopters flying overhead, sirens, or otherwise. Pretty soon you get used to it and you barely even notice it.

To be fair, the residents complaining are in the far west portion of Ahwautukee...like Foothills Reserve/29th Ave area. They used to have NO traffic and open desert to the South and West of them. There is going to be a change with a 6 Lane Freeway running through there now.

Not that is hasn't been in the works for decades and shame on them for not doing their due diligence before purchasing there.

Per the article their major complaint is that the sound barrier wall wasn't continued far enough (in their opinion).

[asufan]

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

Well...we took a drive on the South Mountain 202 yesterday out of curiosity.

1) Absolutely love the views, I have always loved the Sierra Estrella Mountains off in the distance when driving on Queen Creek Road to I-10. The scenery heading West on L-202 was beautiful. Even my wife, who absolutely HATES the desert, commented that "Sometimes the desert can be really beautiful". If you knew her, this is a big concession from her

2) If we were heading to CA or points west of Phoenix, this cuts about an hour off of our drive time. We were past where I-17 would have been within 10 minutes. We stopped at Vee Queeva, which we had never been to, and kept laughing that we were already West of DT. Now we literally NEVER have to go through Down Town if we don't have to.

3) We also wondered if the Gila River Indian Community are going to take a cue from the Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community and allow any development along the South side of the freeway. Probably not, but they now have 3 Casinos within about 15 minutes of each other. (Vee Queeva, Wildhorse and Lone Butte).

4) For a brand new road, the surface was already pretty bad with uneven surface ruts and changing materials. I am not a road construction guy but it seems to me that it would be more uniform. Just an observation.

Anyway, glad it is open and we now have an option to bypass Phoenix proper.

It'll save you time but nowhere near an hour

10-15 minutes maybe. Maybe twice that if it's rush hour

[catavenger3]

I live right by the 51. I was here BEFORE it was built. Sometimes it seems like I like on a traffic island NO sound barrier here. The people in Ahwatuquee have more money. but we are po' folks and get nothing...

[JGMotorsport64]

I get a lot of freeway noise too. It’s part of living in an urban area. It doesn’t really bother me.

I get what the residents are saying, but this isn’t some exercise of eminent domain forced on them, it’s been part of the freeway planning for decades.

[KerrTown]

Originally Posted by PhoenixSomeday

The promise is always that the toll will go away once it's paid for, but then the toll always stays, outside of any voter intervention, because then it's "oh, uh, maintenance. and, like, stuff. or whatever. gimme." Those "toll will go away" statements cannot be trusted.

The turnpike between Downtown Dallas and Downtown Fort Worth is the only time a toll road became a freeway. There are still some weird entrance/exit ramp configurations remaining due to the toll booths.

Currently the oldest toll road in Texas goes through Dallas' richest neighborhoods. It sure looks like it was built in 1968 too!

https://goo.gl/maps/v6YK1fTRNce3GaGH9

Originally Posted by rynetwo

San Antonio has expanded all of our freeways without tolls. They are about to start the expansion of our outer to make it 5 lanes in each direction and it will not be tolled.

I would avoid turning to the vice of toll roads. It's hard to break that addiction once you start! I'm glad San Antonio never took that vice up.

In Texas each region has their own "control" (more like a guide) of how they want to fund transportation with the ultimate decision maker being the state.

That actually makes the highway design non-uniform across the state. One example are the Botts Dot arrows on the exit ramp prevalent in the San Antonio and Austin regions. I bet that the head engineer in the Houston region transferred from that area when they were introduced to deter night-time wrong way drivers.

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by KerrTown

The turnpike between Downtown Dallas and Downtown Fort Worth is the only time a toll road became a freeway.

Actually, further up the thread I gave a few examples of toll rods that eventually became free. While it's not very common, it has happened in the past, just take a look at the list of toll roads in the US wikipedia page and they have a list of roads/bridges that started out as toll, then became free:

List of toll roads in the United States

Here's a breakdown by state of toll roads/bridges, where the tolls went away:

Colorado

US 36 (Denver–Boulder Turnpike)—tolls removed in 1967.

Connecticut

I-95 (Gold Star Memorial Bridge)—tolls removed in 1963[57]
I-291 (Bissell Bridge)—tolls removed in 1989
US 5 / Route 15 (Charter Oak Bridge)—tolls removed in 1989
Conn. Turnpike—tolls removed in 1985.
Merritt Parkway—tolls removed in 1988.
Route 2A—tolls removed in 1980
Route 3 (Putnam Bridge)—tolls removed in 1989
Route 15 (Wilbur Cross Parkway)—tolls removed in 1988.

Georgia

F.J. Torras Causeway – 30¢ tolls removed in 2003.[58][59]
Georgia State Route 400— 50¢ tolls removed in 2013.[60]

Kentucky

Audubon Parkway—tolls removed in 2006. Currently signed as "Future I-69 Spur".
Bluegrass Parkway—tolls removed in 1991.
Cumberland Parkway—tolls removed in 2003.
Hal Rogers Parkway—tolls removed in 2003.
Kentucky Turnpike—tolls removed in 1975, by which time it had already been incorporated into I-65.
Mountain Parkway—tolls removed in 1986.
Natcher Parkway—tolls removed in 2006. Most of its route is now designated as I-165, with a small section as KY 9007.
Pennyrile Parkway—tolls removed in 1992. Now designated as I-69 and I-169.
Purchase Parkway—tolls removed in 1992. About half of the route is now designated as I-69, with the rest to follow in the coming years.
Western Kentucky Parkway—tolls removed in 1987. The easternmost 38 miles (61 km) of the road is now designated as I-69; the next 38 miles (61 km) to the east will be designated as I-369 in the coming years.

Maryland

John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway—ramp tolls removed in the 1980s; Tydings Bridge toll remains

New York

Hutchinson River Parkway—tolls removed in 1994.
Niagara Thruway – tolls removed in 2006; tolls on Grand Island Bridges remain.
Saw Mill River Parkway—tolls removed in 1994.
Southern State Parkway—tolls removed in 1978.

Oregon

Barlow Road—tolls in effect from 1864 to 1919; no longer a viable route due the eastern portion being overgrown; most western portions are paved over by modern roads.
Santiam Wagon Road—tolls in effect from 1861 to 1915. Closely parallels the route of U.S. Route 20 through the Cascades.

Texas

Camino Colombia Toll Road/State Highway 255—tolls removed in 2017
Dallas-Fort Worth Turnpike—tolls removed in 1978.

Virginia

Norfolk–Virginia Beach Expressway—tolls removed in 1996.
Richmond–Petersburg Turnpike—tolls removed in 1992.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Roads like the Thruway, MassPike, Pennsylvania Turnpike etc are exceptions. Those roads were tolled before becoming Interstates as they existed before the Interstate System.

A better example would be the Sam Houston Tollway in Houston, TX. When voters approved it back in the 80s, they were promised it would have the tolls removed once the bonds were paid off, but then the Harris County Toll Road Authority pulled a fast one on the voters and decided to make the tolls permanent

I understand that. But originally tolls were supposed to end in 1996. It's now 24 years later.

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by asufan

It'll save you time but nowhere near an hour

10-15 minutes maybe. Maybe twice that if it's rush hour

Well...it normally took us about 45min-1 hour to get from South Chandler through to 59th Ave area. Not only avoiding the 60 interchange (which is horrible) but the I-17 cutoff, the 51 interchange, the mess that is downtown traffic, the I-17 interchange (again). So, yeah...probably more like 15 - 30 minutes and it is going to depend on how congested the South Mountain is next time we go that way. Which isn't as often as it was a few years ago when most of the extended family lived in SoCal. They have all moved to AZ for the most part or cities North of us so going to/through the West side is very rare for us. I would dare say it is quite a bit safer avoiding all the interchanges as well. A lot less nerve wracking as well.