Sky Bloom - Downtown art piece by Janet Echelman (Phoenix: loan, hotel)

[zenkonami]

I'd be in for a "Phoenix Spire" type structure of the sort Valley Native describes. It's not necessarily about drawing tourists *to* the city but keeping them there and giving them somewhere to go (other than golf courses) once they're *in* the city. Such iconic structures also tend to have slow but progressive effect over time on outsiders' perception of the city which can in fact play a role (obviously not exclusively) in companies, families, institutions and individuals moving to a city.

It is, of course, subjective, and the opportunity for folly is also great, but it's at least an idea worth talking about.

[roosevelt]

Why should a city need any kind of a landmark? What happened to just being a clean and safe city? Is having some stupid off the wall symbol better than no grafitti, no kidnappings and no slums? Impossible, yes I know.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by zenkonami

Though I generally agree with you regarding more cosmopolitan icons, I think the mountains in Phoenix are a perfectly legitimate selling point! They are not huge by any means, but they are scenic, and standing atop one and looking out over the valley is still quite impressive. Personally I always found the sun setting below the White Tanks to be amazingly beautiful even when compared to Sedona or Grand Canyon sunsets.

If mountain vistas are a selling point, then so be it. I just think that the nation's fifth largest city & 12th largest metro area could offer a lot more besides mountains, golf, and seemingly endless sunny days as marketing strategies. All that would be fine if Phoenix was the size of Spokane, Washington. There comes a time when a city this large has to grow up and put big city priorities ahead of the old school methods. What worked well for Phoenix as a smaller city at one time may not work so well as a large city anymore.

Originally Posted by roosevelt

Why should a city need any kind of a landmark? What happened to just being a clean and safe city? Is having some stupid off the wall symbol better than no grafitti, no kidnappings and no slums? Impossible, yes I know.

Look around. Phoenix already has graffiti, kidnappings, slums ... as well as many other woes of big city life, such as traffic congestion, air pollution, etc. Wouldn't it be a nice change to offset those problems with some POSITIVE aspects of a large city? That's why I favor theme parks and other attractions that would draw visitors from other parts of the nation/world, as well as from within.

As long as taxpayer money isn't used to finance these amenities, what's it to you if the landmarks are "stupid" or "off the wall"? Anyway, a towering replica of a Phoenix Bird rising from its ashes is only a vision as of now. But a symbolic landmark like this, or amusement parks that are paid for by private investments would certainly be a lot more worthwhile than that ridiculous floating object that cost $2 million in public money!

[acrylic]

Don't take this as a bash against Phoenix, because if anyone's been reading my posts, they'll know how much I love Phoenix, but I don't see how Phoenix mountains are a reason for people to visit the city. There's mountains all over Arizona, as well as nicer, more scenic mountains elsewhere (Tucson comes to mind).
Like Valley Native said, there needs to be other things that make people want to go to Phoenix.

[observer53]

They may not come to see the mountains, but this part of the discussion is about distinctive landmarks, and whether we need to BUILD them. I still don't think some sort of tower that people come look at (or just drive by) and then drive off to Sedona or whereever is going to bring MORE people to visit Phoenix.

People don't go to SF because of the Transamerica tower. I don't think they make a trip to St Louis primarily to see the arch. (There's not much to see or do there either. I've been there for a couple of business meetings/conventions. Zoo is nice, Budweiser tour is interesting, library is beautiful. End of story, and they don't have weather to draw people in.)

That leads me to another point. A major component of the travel to Phoenix (probably THE major one, except for snowbirds, who also don't need a landmark) is convention travel. The expansion of the Phoenix Civic Plaza and the new Sheraton downtown adding to the available rooms will do more for travel TO Phoenix in the coming years than any new symbolic landmark ever could.

There's no distinctive manmade landmark like the others that have been mentioned in Los Angeles,Chicago, Miami, Dallas, Houston, Portland, and other cities. If some corporate $$$ wants to build a distinctive building for the Phoenix skyline, let them have at it. I remain unconvinced that Phoenix needs to spend big public $$$ for some sort of symbolic structure that can go on the cover of travel brochures. IMO, it won't make people come here, or stay for one day longer than they already planned.

[Finger Laker]

LA has the hollywood sign, walk of fame, etc as well known international symbols

chicago has the sears tower, millenium park, etc

miami has southbeach and all those art deco style bars, hotels, clubs, etc that line it

Nothing pops out to me about houston - the astrodome used to get a lot of attention, but not so much anymore

Portland is a tiny city by comparison

I also do know people who have gone to St. Louis specifically to see the gateway arch

I think the golden gate bridge is a better example than the transamerica tower in SF

obviously the city of phoenix feels the need to have some kind of identifiable structure that adds to the status of the city - why else would they spend 2.4M for this stated purpose? ....... the question is if it will be effective or not

[observer53]

The Hollywood sign. I can see that on TV. I'm not going to climb up there and look at it, or go to Hollywood to see it. The Walk of Fame is tied to the entertainment industry. They pass out those stars like candy, now. It dilutes the appeal of it, to me. LA is a difficult analogy, I admit, because of Hollywood and the ocean nearby and the amusement parks, etc. We don't WANT to be like LA.

I'll allow that some go just to see the Arch. And then what, they get back on the plane or back in a car, or do they stay a day or two (just as someone might do here already)

Yes, Miami has cultural things that draw people there, without the need for a manmade landmark for that purpose. Perhaps Phoenix should spend its money promoting the museums and other attractions it already has, and creating entertainment districts that will draw people the same way. The revitalization of downtown, including the Civic Plaza, are certainly steps in that direction. We don't have a beach like Miami, so we have to do it a different way.

I used the Transamerica Tower because that was the example someone else used as a landmark that defines SF in pictures, etc. I think the Golden Gate bridge is a better example of something like that that draws tourists, too, but it wasn't built for that purpose, so SF just lucked out. We sure don't need a bridge....

Again, do people go to Chicago mainly to see either of those places? I think Chicago is like Phoenix in terms of attracting a lot of convention traffic, which is driven by convention centers, lots of hotel rooms, restaurants, etc. Not by landmarks built for the sake of being a landmark.

"Adding to the status of the city" is a little different thing. I frankly don't think this art object was worth that kind of money. The park is a nice touch, but they didn't need that much expense on one piece of public art.

They made a huge fuss a few years ago over the new Federal courthouse that was designed by some big deal architect I'd never heard of, and how that would "add to the status of the city" to have a building designed by that guy ( I think his name is Meier, I forget). It is ugly inside and out, stands out in a bad way from every other building downtown (the City Court building is WAY more asthetically pleasing, and I have no idea who designed that one-- he or she should be famous), and is covered in glass. So smart in the desert, and so attractive, post-Oklahoma City, to someone who wants to blow up a courthouse. Good judgment there, too. I realize that wasn't City money, but they were sure happy for that supposed "feather in their cap".

[Finger Laker]

i agree with that - however, it's all part of a package

for example, in seattle the space needle doesn't even have the best view in the city - you can go up much higher, get a much better view for 1/3 of the cost......... however, when people get to seattle they must see the space needle ........ obviously the city could survive without it, but it is a nice landmark and commercial opportunity

the problem with phoenix is identity - most of the "districts" like mill ave, old town, westgate, etc are located in different cities .... a lot of the resorts are in different cities and the ones that phoenix does have people just assume are in a place like scottsdale

they have restrictions on the skyline and face a struggle with that as well

what makes phoenix pop off the charts - what will make you want to spend time as a tourist in phoenix, spend you tax revenue, hotel dollars, dining dollars, etc in phoenix as opposed to the outer cities

when people from around the country what do they think of when they think of phoenix - then the follow question is if the thought is even phoenix proper

[auramar]

Roosevelt,

Would you mind contacting me when you have a chance. I am doing work for Town and Country and would love to get a copy of the Coze Phoenix shot you posted for color reference. Any chance you could email me a larger print of the thumbnail that you posted? It would be greatly apprecated.

Thanx in advance!

Chris
chris@auramar.net

[auramar]

Roosevelt,

Would you mind contacting me when you have a chance. I am doing work for Town and Country and would love to get a copy of the Coze Phoenix shot you posted for color reference. Any chance you could email me a larger print of the thumbnail that you posted? It would be greatly apprecated.

Thanx in advance!

Chris
chris@auramar.net