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95% of the "half of my city" that is migrating to Phoenix under the age of 40 finds themselves back here faster than they left, it must be that quality of life you speak of.
And the other half are old farts who suck the vitality out of AZ and could care less about quality of living, education, and community involvement unless it interferes with their tee time or doctor's appointment, or involves higher taxes for schools or roads which they'll dependably shoot down. Then they die, replaced by the new legion of recently retired, completing the cycle, the giant sucking sound masked in the din of air conditioners spinning those electric meters into a frenzy with the all too familiar BS posts like 'hey, my a/c bill was only $40 in July 'cuz my house is so freakin insulated' or 'scorpions make great bedside companions' or 'it's only hot for 2 months' or 'where the hell is my jacket, the temp dropped below 85 (poor circulation ... take your meds) or 'June was the coolest month on record' or 'crime, what crime?' in a city (along with Tucson) with some of the highest kidnapping, property theft, and murder rates in the country next to a country with a murderous drug war whose proximity creates crushing social service demands in a state which can ill afford it.
Yes, the state certainly harbors its fair share of miscreants as witness to the ridiculous pro AZ fanaticism that abounds on these threads, people who apparantly have no life but have my sympathies since I understand the permanent ill effects of sunstroke on judgment and behavior. The tarnish is showing and people across the country are taking notice.
And the other half are old farts who suck the vitality out of AZ and could care less about quality of living, education, and community involvement unless it interferes with their tee time or doctor's appointment, or involves higher taxes for schools or roads which they'll dependably shoot down. Then they die, replaced by the new legion of recently retired, completing the cycle, the giant sucking sound masked in the din of air conditioners spinning those electric meters into a frenzy with the all too familiar BS posts like 'hey, my a/c bill was only $40 in July 'cuz my house is so freakin insulated' or 'scorpions make great bedside companions' or 'it's only hot for 2 months' or 'where the hell is my jacket, the temp dropped below 85 (poor circulation ... take your meds) or 'June was the coolest month on record' or 'crime, what crime?' in a city (along with Tucson) with some of the highest kidnapping, property theft, and murder rates in the country next to a country with a murderous drug war whose proximity creates crushing social service demands in a state which can ill afford it.
See Big Lake, these are the type of people we deal with on this forum who hail from different, "superior" cities but make laughable comments like those above and show their insecurities and ignorance. So here we go again. The same song and dance, but it never gets boring...well, sometimes. All the old folk? Like in Sun City...the fact that Phoenix' median age and average age is younger than Chicago's and one of the youngest in the nation, this stupid comment makes no sense! Another miscreant who speaks of stereotypes trolling for a reaction but sadly mistaken and uninformed. Don't hate because we find 85° cool and 70° sweater weather...that's just the way life goes. Deal with it. Our crime, you aren't going to get me started on Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Philly, etc. crime rates compared to Phoenix. An increase in Chicago homicide compared to a 24% drop in Phoenix and an over-all 30% drop in violent crime including property thefts, murder rates, etc. We may be next to a country with a drug war but that is a world away and doesn't affect us here in Arizona much less Phoenix which is separated by the war by natural boundaries and hundreds of miles of uninhabited desert and mountain vistas.
How about Illinois' budget crisis and the number of welfare recipients in midwestern states and cities. Are you really going to try to pass them off as being better than in AZ or Phx? You aren't that naive and blind are you? And the kidnapping! LOL, we've talked ad nauseam about the "kidnappings" in Arizona and how they aren't really kidnappings but illegals sneaking each other across the border and holding one another for "payment" for a "coyote" service. Of the 377 "kidnappings" in Phoenix last year, all except for a few were of illegals held in drop-houses! LOL, kidnappings my arse! They all get sent back to whence they came.
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Yes, the state certainly harbors its fair share of miscreants as witness to the ridiculous pro AZ fanaticism that abounds on these threads, people who apparantly have no life but have my sympathies since I understand the permanent ill effects of sunstroke on judgment and behavior. The tarnish is showing and people across the country are taking notice.
Yes the "people across the country" are taking notice of the already tarnished political, budgetary, and criminal activity of midwestern cities like Chicago and Detroit. These are a few reasons both cities are losing population. That and the fact that these "great" midwestern cities have the highest number of high school dropouts, murder victims, and poor and segregated neighborhoods. Maybe it is brain freeze and cabin fever from long, cold, gloomy winters that causes a chemical imbalance in the brain that is finally taking its toll especially from those who "have no life" and must frequent other city's forums to make themselves feel better.
I moved from Illinois to Phoenix in 1985 and lived there for 15 years. I loved it! My brother and sister moved to Chicago, they love it there.
I like to visit my brother and sisiter for a few days, but I would be miserable living in Chicago. My brother and sister have visited me here in Arizona and had a great trip, but they would be miserable living here.
Me and my brother and sister are very different people, that's why we feel differently about Phoenix and Chicago.
I don't need to see other people to have a good time. I can go snow skiing in the winter. I can drive to Sedona. I can drive to Vegas in 4 hours; where are you going to go..Indianapolis or St. Louis! We have beautiful mountains to hike. We can rock climb. You guys don't have that. I don't need to deal with 8 months of cold weather just so I can enjoy a day in the park in the summer. And to be honest, if I'm going to live in an urban city with character, I would rather live in New York, San Francisco, Boston or Seattle. Those cities feel like they have more culture and things to do than Chicago.
I agree Phoenix needs more of an urban presence and a Millenium park but we are getting there. We are a new city. No city is perfect.
U better spend some serious time in and visiting Indianapolis or St. Louis for a while B4 dogging them. You dont know those cities at all.
I don't need to see other people to have a good time. I can go snow skiing in the winter. I can drive to Sedona. I can drive to Vegas in 4 hours; where are you going to go..Indianapolis or St. Louis! We have beautiful mountains to hike. We can rock climb. You guys don't have that. I don't need to deal with 8 months of cold weather just so I can enjoy a day in the park in the summer. And to be honest, if I'm going to live in an urban city with character, I would rather live in New York, San Francisco, Boston or Seattle. Those cities feel like they have more culture and things to do than Chicago.
I agree Phoenix needs more of an urban presence and a Millenium park but we are getting there. We are a new city. No city is perfect.
I agree, no question, the scenery in and around Phoenix is better than the scenery in and around Chicago, apart from stretches of Lake Michigan. But I don't like the fact that when people ask me for "things to do in Phoenix," I tell them a few things, then suggest driving to Sedona. Phoenix needs things of its own that are unique to it, and closer together, so they are walkable. No question, the light rail and the new unique restaurants and the park downtown are a good start. But Millenium Park was built recently and is a tremendous success. There's no reason - apart from water issues - that Phoenix couldn't do much the same thing, "new" city or not.
And you're underrating Chicago. New York is too crowded. San Francisco and Boston are too expensive. Seattle is too remote. They're all great cities - but Chicago is underrated compared to those considering its amazing architecture, music, art, and history.
Ok let me educate you a little about Phoenix and the region here since you seem to know little. Millennium Park? How about the largest municipal parks in the World right here in Phoenix.
Those aren't parks, not in the traditional sense. Those are mountain preserves. They're pretty, and they're scenic, but they aren't places you can take the kids to play in a fountain, sit on a park bench, look at the flowers, read a book, lie on the grass, or relax, a la Central Park or Millenium Park. Yes, I understand, Phoenix has to have a limited number of those becuase it's in a desert. And I will give you Encanto Park and the Margaret Hance Park, as well as Cactus and Roadrunner Parks and perhaps the new Civic Space Park. But those parks are miles from one another. There's no cultural "base" - no single park where people congregate and meet and talk, as in a real city. Maybe Civic Space Park will be that someday. I do like the sculpture, though it's not the Bean in Chicago. But for now, the parks are too scattered, and the parks you referred to aren't parks. They're preserves.
I'll give you the museums, and I don't say that Phoenix has a *different* culture than Chicago. What I really miss is the walkability, the sense of an urban "place" that you don't get in Phoenix. Until you look into it - and even, to some extent, afterwards - the impression of Phoenix is a large strip mall, an urban suburb. It needs more city life. I agree it's working on that.
I have nothing against Phoenix and it is unquestionably an easier place to live than Chicago. But even with friends it feels more lonely - it doesn't feel like an urban, culturally driven, interesting to look at and people-watching city, as you would feel in a Boston, San Francisco, Chicago, or New York. There's nowhere to *go* to congregate with others - there's no Boston Common, no Golden Gate Park, no Millenium Park, no Central Park.
Ok let me educate you a little about Phoenix and the region here since you seem to know little. Millennium Park? How about the largest municipal parks in the World right here in Phoenix.
Those aren't parks, not in the traditional sense. Those are mountain preserves. They're pretty, and they're scenic, but they aren't places you can take the kids to play in a fountain, sit on a park bench, look at the flowers, read a book, lie on the grass, or relax, a la Central Park or Millenium Park. Yes, I understand, Phoenix has to have a limited number of those becuase it's in a desert. And I will give you Encanto Park and the Margaret Hance Park, as well as Cactus and Roadrunner Parks and perhaps the new Civic Space Park. But those parks are miles from one another. There's no cultural "base" - no single park where people congregate and meet and talk, as in a real city. Maybe Civic Space Park will be that someday. I do like the sculpture, though it's not the Bean in Chicago. But for now, the parks are too scattered, and the parks you referred to aren't parks. They're preserves.
Actually, South Mountain is a municipal park...a very large, in fact the largest municipal park and there is no other "tradition" to label it differently. There are plenty of places and "benches" to sit on and look at flowers, read books, lie on grass and relax. Try the "farm" at South Mountain Park. Walk around the Central Ave. entrance and around some trails to find a bench to sit on and enjoy. Grab your camera and snap a picture of the Valley since you are higher in elevation. Go to the stables where you can horseback ride and be taken for a ride if you choose. Also, Civic Space, Margret T. Hance, Encanto, Roosevelt Park, etc. are all less then a mile or couple miles from each other. ALL of these parks are IN downtown and Encanto Park is .2 miles from downtown's official boundary. Encanto park would be the place to congregate meet and talk as in any real city as it offers unmatched urban oasis, gardens, boats on the lakes, golf courses, club houses in historical buildings, etc. etc. Also, Steele Indian School Park is another place to congregate in Uptown Phoenix. Walk through the park, more gardens and historic buildings from the 1800's inside, join in on a game of beach volleyball, etc. Civic Space Park is another gathering spot and also doubles as a quad for ASU so it is DEFINITELY a place to congregate and meet up.
I don't particularly think the "bean" is anything special. It's just a shiny chunk of metal and not very imaginative if you ask me. Some of the parks are preserves and I mentioned that...well ONE is a preserve, the Phoenix Mountain Preserve, LOL! ONE, the rest are parks; Papago Park, Encanto, Steele, Margret T. Hance, Roosevelt, etc. They aren't scattered and one measure of urban livability is the number and acreages of green space and parks in which Phoenix is one of the cities throughout the world with an abundance of such urban getaways and spaces.
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I'll give you the museums, and I don't say that Phoenix has a *different* culture than Chicago. What I really miss is the walkability, the sense of an urban "place" that you don't get in Phoenix. Until you look into it - and even, to some extent, afterwards - the impression of Phoenix is a large strip mall, an urban suburb. It needs more city life. I agree it's working on that.
Well of course you don't walk the entire metro area of Phoenix. If you want walkability in an urban "place" you go to the central neighborhoods in Phoenix, Scottsdale, Tempe, and even Glendale. Walk around downtown, uptown, mid-town, Old-Town, Mill Ave, University district, North Central Phoenix, the Biltmore, etc. You don't walk from downtown Phoenix to a suburb just like you don't walk from Chicago to Schaumburg or Naperville...you drive or take public transit...much like you do in Phoenix. Also, there is a lack of strip malls in the central neighborhoods of the major cities in metro Phoenix. Stop being so silly, I know you are more knowledgeable.
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I have nothing against Phoenix and it is unquestionably an easier place to live than Chicago. But even with friends it feels more lonely - it doesn't feel like an urban, culturally driven, interesting to look at and people-watching city, as you would feel in a Boston, San Francisco, Chicago, or New York. There's nowhere to *go* to congregate with others - there's no Boston Common, no Golden Gate Park, no Millenium Park, no Central Park.
It is sad you feel lonely even with friends in Phoenix...maybe something to talk to "someone" about. But I find Phoenix just as urban, culturally driven, interesting to look at and people-watch as any city. I usually do any of the above at one of the unique settings in Phoenix like one of our parks (Steele, Encanto, Civic Space, Margeret Hance), urban trails (one which is 14 miles long and first trailed in the 1880's), museums, festivals (multiple at the Irish cultural center, japanese at the gardens, hispanic anywhere in Phoenix, Chinese at the Chinese cultural center, German at Stomptisch, Native American throughout the Valley) and on and on. If you feel lonely, culturally devoid, and don't find things of interests in Phoenix it is because you are being a hermit or not looking whatsoever! That is personal, not civc.
Last edited by fcorrales80; 08-13-2009 at 11:43 AM..
Likewise, go to Africa if you want to experience brutal heat, it doesn't change the fact that our summers are hot just like Russia's winters don't change the fact that your winters are brutal
Lets just leave it at this: PHXs summers are pure Hell and Chicago's winters are no picnic. There, done.
Lets just leave it at this: PHXs summers are pure Hell and Chicago's winters are no picnic. There, done.
How about Chicago's winters are pure hell and PHX summers are no picnic?
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The tarnish is showing and people across the country are taking notice.
