Light rail observations and questions... (Phoenix: pollution, train, smog)
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"fooled by the ... phony Global Warming scientists,"
I noticed you left off the "(now proven)" part of my quote....
I was being kind. Your words are confusing and might undermine your point. I think you meant to say that the scientists have been proven phony, but the wording you used might be intepreted as meaning they have been proven right. Regardless, we're not going to agree on this issue, so it's not really worth discussing further. Even if global warming is a complete hoax, though, there's still good old-fashioned air pollution -- something worth reducing regardless of differing opinions about global climate change.
"Regardless, we're not going to agree on this issue, so it's not really worth discussing further. Even if global warming is a complete hoax, though, there's still good old-fashioned air pollution -- something worth reducing regardless of differing opinions about global climate change."
The only part of this statement I disagree with are the words "Even if...."
I'm surprised you don't know this since you've claimed in other threads to have lived here a long time.
I'll start by confessing, you caught me. My claim of living here for 30 years is a tall tale. I've only been here 28 yrs. I am located nowhere near the light rail, and knew it was under construction, but was unsure of exactly when it was completed. Since my daily travels take me nowhere near there and the route that is currently in operation doesnt affect me in the slightest, I didnt really pay a great deal of attention to it.
Furthermore, I have seen so many propositions here and there in those many years that always got shot down so I never paid much attention to what was said about the light rail. I figured somewhere along the line (no pun intended) it would also get voted down by some NIMBY or remain a half ass operation.
So the other day I rode it for the first time and was curious about the finer details. I'm pro commuter trains, light rail, whatever has to be done in order to make it live like the large city that it is. I don't buy the argument that rails will increase sprawl in and of itself.
Does anyone really believe Phoenix is going to draw a line in the sand and say, this is where we stop until we get rail lines? Sprawl is fact of life with or without rail lines so they may as well start reserving space to accommodate mass transit. Why keep building and leaving no room for future improvements? This is what I mean about the city planners having no creative vision.
I have never had anyone check my ticket that I buy diligently on the light rail train. Don't tell everyone, they will ride it just because they think it's free and then we will end up with the same nightmares that New York has with their Subway Trains, bums sleeping on them, etc. Is that a problem for you? I imagine if you actually went up to the driver and insisted he would punch your ticket and charge you.
I personally love to ride it when the bus is the alternative. Lots of people in Phoenix do what they call Park and Ride, drive your car to the nearest rail train location and then let them take you downtown or to Tempe. It is much easier in the morning, especially instead of fighting traffic. As long as you park your car, locked in a safe place, it is so much more relaxing. The light rail could replace the whole bus system in my opinion. The difference between them is like night and day. I am disabled so I ride the bus alot. Not having my leg throbbing from being bounced and almost thrown on the floor by the bus at times is a real delight for me. The train is so smoothe and can really fly between here and Tempe. In my humble opinion, they should use lightrail and get rid of the bus system, but the problem is the construction when they build it has to be organised better than last time. I have worked construction and been around road construction people too (was married to one) and you don't tear up the whole town and screw up traffic from one end to the other. You build one section, get it approved, then move on. The way they did it last time turned some areas into lightrail hell and completely ruined some businesses which didn't need things to be any worse in this economy. If they would slowly replace the buses with lightrail trains the whole town would benefit. If every neighborhood had a light rail train within walking distance it would be a HUGE benefit gas, insurance, smog, and time wise. If you watch in the morning here, the traffic smoke looks like a big smear of brown gravy going up into the sky. It is stupd that we are breathing that. I have had two relatives here die from lung cancer and neither one smoked, but they both owned a convertable. You can't forsee somethings like a bus breaking down or some crazy on the bus, but under normal circumstances we would all be able to get on a train and get where we needed to go in a half hour maximum. All large cities have light rail and it helps increase business and lowers traffic if used. But, like everything else that is a good idea in Arizona, people vote for it but don't want to use it (E.G. carpooling) If you are a tradesman for instance (ie plumber, carpenter, roofer, etc.) you need to carry your tools with you. That takes a vehicle. Most other people could bring even a LARGE rolling briefcase the size of a suitcase to work everyday and leave their car for going shopping or leaving town, but so many people just don't want to do the smart thing because they are too used to having their car there. They can stop along the way and eat, drink, rent a movie, etc. and would have to get a couple times to do that if they took the train, most people think. But, if you planned it out so that you took a lunch box with all that stuff with you, it would be just fine. We are too spoiled. Eventually I think the economy might convince more people to use it. Someday it could connect us to Tucson and Flagstaff, as well. Can you imagine taking a minivacation and just walking outside with your suitcase, walking to the corner, getting on the bus, riding to the Grand Canyon or to the mission or botanical gardens in Tucson, maybe even to Nogales to do some shopping? Leave the fighting with traffic to the train driver and read a book, relax, put on your headphones and enjoy the ride. I think it could easily replace charter busses in some cases, also.
We don't have to change our lives, just open our minds to being healthier, more efficient, and economical. No wonder not many people in Arizona do it.
IMHO,
Arizona Mildman
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmist
I have some relatives that came into town and decided to take them to downtown and tempe via the light rail, so I had my first experience with the train and have some questions.
First, who looks at the passes you buy? No one checked anything at any stop at any point. It seems like its on the honor system and maybe ticket checks are random, but since stops are so frequent, it seems too easy to hop on and hop off a few minutes down the road for a quick free ride.
Second, who does this route actually cater too? Has anyone given up their cars to use it to get to work downtown? It seemed to be full of people who had been previously been using the bus system to get around, and many of them had conversations amongst one another about how it isnt doing "squat" for them. I overheard conversation where they were complaining that the train made a trip that previously took 2 buses, into one bus to the rail stop but other than that, it didnt open up any new opportunities.
As you get near the college, I did notice the route picked up ASU students and transported them a few stops away in either direction, so this is a good thing for them I can tell. But as for getting people to use it as a replacement to their vehicle, I'm not sure how successful it will ever be unless it extends into the suburbs.
Please dont misunderstand this statement, but overall it seemed like it was mostly occupied by people who were unemployable and plenty that stank of alcohol or other forms of B.O. I am not snooty and have no problem sharing air space with anyone, in fact, I found it a little refreshing to escape suburbia and mingle with the real city. This was more of a legitimate question as to what need is this current route serving?
This is not criticism because its definitely a start, but I'm curious about the seriousness of future plans. When did this rail line begin operation? Are there concrete scheduled plans to extend it? Will they first head further north or further east first?
As for downtown, my out of town company noted how strange it was that they could hear crickets chirping in the middle of the city at 7pm. They found it strange how completely dead the city was at this hour. We got off around Central / Washington @ 7pm because they wanted to see Heritage square and eat at the famous Pizzeria Bianco. Outside of the crowd that was eating at Rose and Crown and the pizzeria, there wasnt a soul walking about anywhere in that whole area. We both felt a little like maybe everyone else knew something we didn't, like you are not supposed to walk that area after dark or something. Where is all the action at if I want to show them that Phoenix has some fun after dark, but dont want it be a drink til you puke meat market type thing? Did we just get off at the wrong stop? Everything seemed like closed office buildings.
You did get off at the CBD stop (Central Business District) and that area is usually quiet unless there is an event, concert, game, etc. There aren't too many houses and condos around that area that is concentrated with office highrises. Some of the streets with bars and action are Adams, and Central further north near Roosevelt and McDowell (where the museums, art scene, cultural events are). Not sure what day you went, but I've never heard crickets chirping near Heritage Square, especially because there are many more bars and restaurants than Rose and Crown and Bianco; you didn't mention Bar Bianco which is in a building right next to the pizzeria that is always packed, The Teeter House, The Science Center and Civic Plaza.
Did you walk a few blocks north to the Arizona Center near the Sheraton and further north to Roosevelt Row where Sens, Carly's , Portland's, Pasta Bar, the Downtown Phoenix Public Market (farmer's market), Nine/05, and all the other bars/clubs are located?
Just one question; did you notice one of the largest construction projects in downtown history across Central Ave from the Central/Washington station? Did you stop to see what will be offered soon or what it looked like and what it was?
I have to be frankly honest with you about something. While I appreciate your optimism and positive feedback about most things concerning Phoenix, development, downtown activity, etc., I think that sometimes you can be a little TOO optimistic to the point where it sounds like wishful thinking, or even fantasy. The fact of the matter is that Cmist has posted valid observations which point to how downtown is basically dead after dark.
Let's face the facts: the Phoenix area has been hit pretty hard by the economic downturn ... and I say this even being a critic of the doomsdayers who keep saying how bad things are. Overall, I don't think the economy is as bad as what many are claiming ... but since Phoenix is so dependent on growth, construction, and development, what was planned several years ago may not become reality for several years (or at all). That is because construction and development have suffered huge setbacks. Even CityScape (one of the largest construction projects in downtown history, as you say) may be severely scaled back thanks to this downturn.
I will say, however, that if the pathetic NIMBYs hadn't been a factor, some of these highrise & development projects that were on the books a few years ago likely would have been constructed & completed by now. A good example was the W Hotel, which was killed by a lawsuit started by a Chinese preservationist group. That would have added much needed hotel rooms to downtown, and given the city skyline a boost.
So.... any idea if and when they are going to start the Tempe south extension? I thought about this the other day. If I ever had to live in Maricopa for any reason I could take the commuter bus to downtown, if you worked down there that is.
So.... any idea if and when they are going to start the Tempe south extension? I thought about this the other day. If I ever had to live in Maricopa for any reason I could take the commuter bus to downtown, if you worked down there that is.
Probably not anytime soon. Tempe has had to make cuts to its existing transport system (Orbit buses, etc), which are a lot more relevant and useful to most of their residents than light rail.
It would be nice to have light rail go south from Tempe down Rural to Chandler Blvd. But that is a dream. The Broadway curve has thousands of commuters per day, and it extends to route 143, which I used to take into the Arcadia district for work.
As for B.O. on the people on the light rail, it is to be expected. I used to ride a bus to college when I did not feel like biking. Most of the riders were stinking homeless and a few times a cluster of (ahem, PC term here...) "mentally challenged" people would be passengers. They would ride just for the thrill of it. Funny! It's discouraging to motorists who would want to try to help do something about pollution because they are scared of abnormal people. In the South Bay part of LA where I work, a couple mornings ago I saw a bum sleeping on the sheltered bus stop bench. Guess he was still working off his hooch while waiting for a bus to take him to his next begging point so he could get more hooch for the day.
But that's part of life. If you ignore all that and if the coffers of the light rail are in the black, that is a good thing. I just finished reading about the Sacramento Ca light rail. They have severe problems and are severely in the red.
As for global warming - I don't believe that hooey. However I do like fresh unpolluted air. I love downtown Phoenix and Chase Field and the restaurants there. I may buy a loft there or (kind of removed away) at the Optima Biltmore lofts on Camelback. I fly out of Sky Harbor often, so I like a quick trip from the airport to my home. I love the ability of not having to depend on a car, although I do not intend to ever give up a car either. I really don't need a car at my part of Los Angeles where I work since everything I need is within two miles.
"As for B.O. on the people on the light rail, it is to be expected. I used to ride a bus to college when I did not feel like biking. Most of the riders were stinking homeless"
Reminds me of Wierd Al Yankovic's Another One Rides the Bus:
It was smelling like a locker room There was junk all over the floor We're already packed in like sardines But we're stopping to pick up more, look out
There's a smelly old bum standing next to me Hasn't showered in a year
Hey, who's gonna sit by you Another one rides the bus
(Obviously, I only included a few small snippets of the song, hoping the mods don't delete it....)
But that's part of life. If you ignore all that and if the coffers of the light rail are in the black, that is a good thing. I just finished reading about the Sacramento Ca light rail. They have severe problems and are severely in the red.
That is good. The train was for the rich anyway. Why would you have a train go from the richest parts of Folsom to downtown and never incorporate any of the residential areas. Excuse me it wasn't completely for the rich because there is part of it that goes through a mid town area.
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Those Pesky Light Rail Tickets
