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I have some relatives that came into town and decided to take them to downtown and tempe via the light rail, so I had my first experience with the train and have some questions.
First, who looks at the passes you buy? No one checked anything at any stop at any point. It seems like its on the honor system and maybe ticket checks are random, but since stops are so frequent, it seems too easy to hop on and hop off a few minutes down the road for a quick free ride.
Second, who does this route actually cater too? Has anyone given up their cars to use it to get to work downtown? It seemed to be full of people who had been previously been using the bus system to get around, and many of them had conversations amongst one another about how it isnt doing "squat" for them. I overheard conversation where they were complaining that the train made a trip that previously took 2 buses, into one bus to the rail stop but other than that, it didnt open up any new opportunities.
As you get near the college, I did notice the route picked up ASU students and transported them a few stops away in either direction, so this is a good thing for them I can tell. But as for getting people to use it as a replacement to their vehicle, I'm not sure how successful it will ever be unless it extends into the suburbs.
Please dont misunderstand this statement, but overall it seemed like it was mostly occupied by people who were unemployable and plenty that stank of alcohol or other forms of B.O. I am not snooty and have no problem sharing air space with anyone, in fact, I found it a little refreshing to escape suburbia and mingle with the real city. This was more of a legitimate question as to what need is this current route serving?
This is not criticism because its definitely a start, but I'm curious about the seriousness of future plans. When did this rail line begin operation? Are there concrete scheduled plans to extend it? Will they first head further north or further east first?
As for downtown, my out of town company noted how strange it was that they could hear crickets chirping in the middle of the city at 7pm. They found it strange how completely dead the city was at this hour. We got off around Central / Washington @ 7pm because they wanted to see Heritage square and eat at the famous Pizzeria Bianco. Outside of the crowd that was eating at Rose and Crown and the pizzeria, there wasnt a soul walking about anywhere in that whole area. We both felt a little like maybe everyone else knew something we didn't, like you are not supposed to walk that area after dark or something. Where is all the action at if I want to show them that Phoenix has some fun after dark, but dont want it be a drink til you puke meat market type thing? Did we just get off at the wrong stop? Everything seemed like closed office buildings.
I think it mostly caters to ASU students at the Tempe campus and downtown campus, as well as the growing population of urban dwellers. Phoenix has an incredible amount of sprawl and suburbs and I think people are ready to start living in a more urban environment closer to work/school/entertainment and ready to be less dependent on their cars.
First, who looks at the passes you buy? No one checked anything at any stop at any point. It seems like its on the honor system and maybe ticket checks are random, but since stops are so frequent, it seems too easy to hop on and hop off a few minutes down the road for a quick free ride.
It depends on the city; in Phoenix the Phoenix Police Transit Security check for tickets randomly. So far on their checks, they average less then 1% of those on the train try to ride without a ticket. The fines for such a trip (ticketless) are high and so I believe most people would rather not risk it. Since last January, I've seen about 10 people arrested for riding more than once without a ticket, LOL!
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Second, who does this route actually cater too? Has anyone given up their cars to use it to get to work downtown? It seemed to be full of people who had been previously been using the bus system to get around, and many of them had conversations amongst one another about how it isnt doing "squat" for them. I overheard conversation where they were complaining that the train made a trip that previously took 2 buses, into one bus to the rail stop but other than that, it didnt open up any new opportunities.
It caters to a broad cross-section of users. Some of the heaviest traffic groups are those who use the park-n-rides and take the train to events, games, bars/clubs, restaurants, etc. The other large segment of users are commuters in general. I ride the rail everyday and use it as opposed to driving and have never heard anyone say the train hasn't significantly improved service. Before, it would take at LEAST 2 to 4 bus transfers to get to the ASU campus from different areas of Phoenix (say Christown or Phoenix College). Now that same trip takes no transfer what so ever, or one. Opportunities that have opened up are 7 billion dollars in investment downtown alone (most private and the largest such investment in state history), opportunities for expanded mass transit, and it takes much less time to get anywhere compared to busses.
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As you get near the college, I did notice the route picked up ASU students and transported them a few stops away in either direction, so this is a good thing for them I can tell. But as for getting people to use it as a replacement to their vehicle, I'm not sure how successful it will ever be unless it extends into the suburbs.
Light rail ridership has increasingly grown since last December; even when temperatures were 105° and up and no school was in session (July), light rail ridership beat projections and current numbers are huge.
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This is not criticism because its definitely a start, but I'm curious about the seriousness of future plans. When did this rail line begin operation? Are there concrete scheduled plans to extend it? Will they first head further north or further east first?
Nick gave some pretty good links for this info; and if commuter rail is started, this would only benefit light rail ridership.
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As for downtown, my out of town company noted how strange it was that they could hear crickets chirping in the middle of the city at 7pm. They found it strange how completely dead the city was at this hour. We got off around Central / Washington @ 7pm because they wanted to see Heritage square and eat at the famous Pizzeria Bianco. Outside of the crowd that was eating at Rose and Crown and the pizzeria, there wasnt a soul walking about anywhere in that whole area. We both felt a little like maybe everyone else knew something we didn't, like you are not supposed to walk that area after dark or something. Where is all the action at if I want to show them that Phoenix has some fun after dark, but dont want it be a drink til you puke meat market type thing? Did we just get off at the wrong stop? Everything seemed like closed office buildings.
You did get off at the CBD stop (Central Business District) and that area is usually quiet unless there is an event, concert, game, etc. There aren't too many houses and condos around that area that is concentrated with office highrises. Some of the streets with bars and action are Adams, and Central further north near Roosevelt and McDowell (where the museums, art scene, cultural events are). Not sure what day you went, but I've never heard crickets chirping near Heritage Square, especially because there are many more bars and restaurants than Rose and Crown and Bianco; you didn't mention Bar Bianco which is in a building right next to the pizzeria that is always packed, The Teeter House, The Science Center and Civic Plaza.
Did you walk a few blocks north to the Arizona Center near the Sheraton and further north to Roosevelt Row where Sens, Carly's , Portland's, Pasta Bar, the Downtown Phoenix Public Market (farmer's market), Nine/05, and all the other bars/clubs are located?
Just one question; did you notice one of the largest construction projects in downtown history across Central Ave from the Central/Washington station? Did you stop to see what will be offered soon or what it looked like and what it was?
Did you walk a few blocks north to the Arizona Center near the Sheraton and further north to Roosevelt Row where Sens, Carly's , Portland's, Pasta Bar, the Downtown Phoenix Public Market (farmer's market), Nine/05, and all the other bars/clubs are located?
No we walked only to heritage square. Due to the lack of another soul, and the fact that I couldnt say for sure if I was somewhere I shouldn't be, we pretty much shotgunned it to heritage square and back. I couldnt really figure out where else to take them on short notice. It was a spur of the moment decision to ditch the car and check out the rail.
The choices of where I took them werent impressive and admittedly its partially due to my own lack of planning. They had remarked that finding some action there was like finding a needle in a haystack as opposed to other places where all of downtown is a little more mixed use with residential/entertainment and business. What stop is the entertainment district for the evening? I want to try and redeem myself!
It was last night, and there were indeed crickets chirping. I wouldnt have even paid attention myself, but they made the remark how the combination of skyscrapers and crickets was odd. This was somewhere east of the Washington/Central stop around 7-8ish. Walk around there sometime at that hour and you can hear 'em. There was ZERO traffic, NO laughing crowds, or any other sounds coming from anywhere. Just the 2 of us and the crickets at 7:30. It was twilight zone-ish.
I agree the price was great and not worth penalties and jail time for $3.50 for all day pass. But I did see a few people begging around Mill Ave in particular asking everyone exiting if they were done with their all day pass and if anyone would give it to them.
Its not like the topic of everyone on the train was about how it was useless, I had overheard 2 different conversations of people throughout the entire round trip. One said it was "no big deal" while another said "it didnt do squat". And since its not something I really can use regularly, I wondered why these people were even on it at all and who is using it.
No we walked only to heritage square. Due to the lack of another soul, and the fact that I couldnt say for sure if I was somewhere I shouldn't be, we pretty much shotgunned it to heritage square and back. I couldnt really figure out where else to take them on short notice. It was a spur of the moment decision to ditch the car and check out the rail.
Actually, we weren't too far from each other, I went to the movies last night at the Arizona Center and ate at Kincaid's which is at the 3rd and Washington/Jefferson stop near the Bank of America tower.
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The choices of where I took them werent impressive and admittedly its partially due to my own lack of planning. They had remarked that finding some action there was like finding a needle in a haystack as opposed to other places where all of downtown is a little more mixed use with residential/entertainment and business. What stop is the entertainment district for the evening? I want to try and redeem myself!
The stops are Central/Roosvelt, Central/McDowell, Central/Van Buren, etc. You generally have to walk a few blocks from the LRT stations to get to the destination but not always.
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It was last night, and there were indeed crickets chirping. I wouldnt have even paid attention myself, but they made the remark how the combination of skyscrapers and crickets was odd. This was at the Washington/Central stop around 7-8ish. Sit there sometime at that hour and you can hear 'em. There was ZERO traffic, NO laughing crowds, or any other sounds coming from anywhere. Just the 2 of us and the crickets at 7:30. It was twilight zone-ish.
Very strange, I left work around this time, headed home and my station at the time was Central/Washington. Stopped by to see the construction site near the station when I heard loud banging and it was actually steel beams being moved, welded and rammed into place, construction workers running around and yelling, people from McCaffery's Pub/San Carlos and the other hotels nearby going to Baja Fresh, Thai Elephant, etc...maybe you got off at a different station? Not sure but it would have been fairly loud anywhere near downtown at the time...especially near the Central/Van Buren station by Grand Central. If you were coming from the north you would have stopped at the 1st Ave and Washington/Jefferson station and not Central/Washington, but that's only a block west and on the south side of Washington...
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I agree the price was great and not worth penalties and jail time for $3.50 for all day pass. But I did see a few people begging around Mill Ave in particular asking everyone exiting if they were done with their all day pass and if anyone would give it to them.
Mill Ave is infamous for that crowd, the beggars, and "gutter punk kids," etc. I usually don't talk to them because of what I know about them from Seattle. Although they seem much more friendly here; in Seattle they were the cause of many muggings, purse snatching, etc in the downtown area. I also don't tickets but have bought one on occassions for those that ask; hey it's better than given away money outright and they are actually trying to get somewhere without cheating the system. But for the most part, there are organizations and charities that get donations that give the poor/transportation-less/homeless tickets for free. I have a pass, it's a credit card like thing, that I just tap and go on the fare box.
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Its not like the topic of everyone on the train was about how it was useless, I had overheard 2 different conversations of people throughout the entire round trip. One said it was "no big deal" while another said "it didnt do squat". And since its not something I really can use regularly, I wondered why these people were even on it at all and who is using it.
Good, observation, I wonder why they were on it too if it wasn't useful or a "big deal." I can tell you it isn't a "big deal" to me now just because it is an everyday occurrence for me to use so it's just like getting in my car; which is no big deal I guess.
Very strange, I left work around this time, headed home and my station at the time was Central/Washington. Stopped by to see the construction site near the station when I heard loud banging and it was actually steel beams being moved, welded and rammed into place, construction workers running around and yelling, people from McCaffery's Pub/San Carlos and the other hotels nearby going to Baja Fresh, Thai Elephant, etc...maybe you got off at a different station?
Hmm.. I wonder if I saw you? Maybe I can tell you what I saw and you can tell me what stop I was at. There was also an accident at 24th/Washington that held up our train, and a huge glob of passengers wearing flourescent pink stickers that said "I support the Temple".
First I can tell you with certainty, there was NOT any construction going on anywhere at that hour where I was. I know I heard the construction and beeping at the Jefferson stop when we exited earlier heading eastbound during the daylight. But Westbound, the equal stop is at Washington, right?
I know we heard the crickets sitting there at the stop itself, but the first time they brought up the odd combo of crickets and skyscrapers, we were standing looking at some church across the street, St Marys Basilica? Behind that I think I saw the Arizona center skyscraper? But we were standing in front of a convention center. They stopped to have a smoke and it was dead quiet, like I said not a single car on the roads, no other pedestrians, no chit chat, clicking heels, or evidence of human life other than buildings.
It was just strange, and maybe like myself, you don't pay attention to it. I know I would not have even noticed if the out of towner didnt bring it up.
1) ASU students
2) Metro bus riders (many of the current ridership--I've seen an estimate of 1/3-- had been using the Metro bus system prior to the opening of the light-rail).
3) Those fooled by the (now proven) phony Global Warming scientists, who tricked people into thinking if they didn't ride the light-rail the polar bears were going to drown. (Mods, feel free to delete this last statement).
1) ASU students
2) Metro bus riders (many of the current ridership--I've seen an estimate of 1/3-- had been using the Metro bus system prior to the opening of the light-rail).
3) Those fooled by the (now proven) phony Global Warming scientists, who tricked people into thinking if they didn't ride the light-rail the polar bears were going to drown. (Mods, feel free to delete this last statement).
Well from what I saw, I am not sure how many were "tricked" into riding it out of fear of global warming, but I did NOT see many busy professionals that were using it as a convenient way to get to work without a car. It seemed to be a glorified bus ride during the daytime offbeat hours, and then at night it seemed to pick up a little more dressed up, special event type crowd.
Still though, I cant complain if it takes some busses off the street. Its still reducing pollution, whether global warming is real or not. No one likes to breathe in the "smust" and if for no other reason than to keep the city air cleaner, why not go electric? If it happens to also help polar bears in the process, well thats dynamite too.
cmist: what time of day and week were you using it? That may explain why not many businessmen/women were on it. Also, I think there are more professional jobs in the downtown Phoenix and on the Central Avenue strip than in downtown Tempe. If you were coming from the east valley to downtown Tempe that may partially explain why you didn't see many suits :-p
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Not sure but it would have been fairly loud anywhere near downtown at the time...especially near the Central/Van Buren station by Grand Central. If you were coming from the north you would have stopped at the 1st Ave and Washington/Jefferson station and not Central/Washington, but that's only a block west and on the south side of Washington...
But for the most part, there are organizations and charities that get donations that give the poor/transportation-less/homeless tickets for free. I have a pass, it's a credit card like thing, that I just tap and go on the fare box. 
