Bye Bye Heinz (Bethel Park, Plum, McKeesport: school, living in, cost)

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

2.) Neither you nor Caladium have addressed my concerns about how it's better for the region to decentralize employment centers at a time when we're unlikely to receive more transit funding, are growing in population, and commute on highways that were outdated shortly after they were constructed.

If a high percentage of the employees live on the west side, then it is more centralized to those employees. What you have not addressed is where the employees live. If more people are now moving to the region, would it be so bad to have them moving to the west side? If renters move to the west side to be near the new campus, won't that lower rents on the east side? It could end up benefiting those people who complain about how expensive it is to live on the east side.

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

3.) You're in the minority of people who would prefer to work on a "campus" in Cranberry or Southpointe over the city.

Do you have proof of this? Has a survey been done? Or are you just assuming that all the workers at US Steel must feel that way because you do?

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by LIRefugee

Of course it's not falling, it'll be decades before auto dependency is no longer practical. But it's foolish to think it will last indefinitely and plan as if it will.

In any case, my major objection to campus-like environment is the disconnection from community. Sure, not everyone can work in a small triangle of land, but we also cannot pave 1/3 of available land with parking lots, and it's a poor use of land to create many discontiguous clusters that are isolated from everything else.

I do not think people will ever be willing to give up personal transportation. You're not going to put that genie back in the bottle. You may disagree. We'll see.

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

1.) I don't keep a personal file on City-Data members. I just happen to have an excellent memory. If you don't want people knowing where you live, then stop mentioning it on the forum. I may have erred in judgment revealing my employer, but I was miserable at my underpaid position and feel more liberated now earning more money with less stress to endure. You're quite welcome for the concern. Anytime!

2.) Neither you nor Caladium have addressed my concerns about how it's better for the region to decentralize employment centers at a time when we're unlikely to receive more transit funding, are growing in population, and commute on highways that were outdated shortly after they were constructed. Job decentralization makes commuting by anything other than your own car nearly impossible. As LIRefugee said it's asinine to presume promoting a car-dependent lifestyle is sustainable for the long-term.

3.) You're in the minority of people who would prefer to work on a "campus" in Cranberry or Southpointe over the city. Want to socialize with colleagues for lunch? You can't. There's nowhere to walk to. Want to socialize after work with colleagues at a bar? You can't unless you want to encourage buzzed driving. Want to do some work on your laptop while riding on a bus or train to and from your "campus"? You can't because you need to drive back-and-forth. I'm by far not the only young professional in the region who has snubbed exurban employers for these reasons and others. I'm not even the only one in my own circle of friends who has done so. You don't move to the nation's "Most Livable City" in order to buy a car and commute thirty minutes each way into suburbia because the city's corporations have no connection to the city.

4.) I lose respect for any company that prioritizes it's bottom line over the happiness of its employees and over the well-being of its host city. I am then inclined to NOT patronize their lines of business. I've successfully boycotted Wal-Mart for many years now due to how they treat their employees. I make a habit of shopping at Wegman's whenever I'm in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre due to how they treat their employees. I started buying more American Eagle products when they moved their HQ into the city from the exurbs. I will research the lines of business and subsidiaries of U.S. Steel and make every effort to boycott them if they leave the city.

2) I think decentralization is essential in a metro of 2 1/2 million people. You can't funnel all the workers into downtown w/o a huge amount of congestion. That's the 50s model, when people first started moving to the burbs en masse. It doesn't work 60 years later. Actually, in Pittsburgh it wasn't extant then, either. Most of the mills were outside the city in mill towns.

3) Except for being able to work on one's computer on public transit, you can do all of the above in that paragraph on a "campus", too. Someone on another thread pointed out it's hard to make phone calls, etc on public transit, too, where others can listen in. Most of these type of conversations are somewhat privileged. Most of these large campuses have a food service. If they don't, you can always go to a local restaurant, the same thing you would have to do in the city. And, you can walk to suburban restaurants. My DH does it almost every day. You and your friends can make your own decisions; I don't know of too many people who are that picky about where they live.

4) The Walmart issue has been beaten into the ground. I don't buy (even for my kids) at AE b/c I don't like how they treat their customers. They always act like these kids are going to rob them blind, bounce checks, etc. I don't know how you're going to boycott US Steel.

[sealie]

Re point #3, you are thinking like a young man with a young man's priorities who lives in the city. A suburban parent is most likely going to place a fairly high premium on a place that they can drive to and get to the daycare in a reasonable amount of time, before the daycare people start charging by the minute. They don't care so much about going to the bar enough to get too impaired to drive, either; they'll go have a single beer, if that, and then get on home to the spouse and kids, cos that's what they care about.

[Burghgirl17]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

1.) I don't keep a personal file on City-Data members. I just happen to have an excellent memory. If you don't want people knowing where you live, then stop mentioning it on the forum. I may have erred in judgment revealing my employer, but I was miserable at my underpaid position and feel more liberated now earning more money with less stress to endure. You're quite welcome for the concern. Anytime!

2.) Neither you nor Caladium have addressed my concerns about how it's better for the region to decentralize employment centers at a time when we're unlikely to receive more transit funding, are growing in population, and commute on highways that were outdated shortly after they were constructed. Job decentralization makes commuting by anything other than your own car nearly impossible. As LIRefugee said it's asinine to presume promoting a car-dependent lifestyle is sustainable for the long-term.

3.) You're in the minority of people who would prefer to work on a "campus" in Cranberry or Southpointe over the city. Want to socialize with colleagues for lunch? You can't. There's nowhere to walk to. Want to socialize after work with colleagues at a bar? You can't unless you want to encourage buzzed driving. Want to do some work on your laptop while riding on a bus or train to and from your "campus"? You can't because you need to drive back-and-forth. I'm by far not the only young professional in the region who has snubbed exurban employers for these reasons and others. I'm not even the only one in my own circle of friends who has done so. You don't move to the nation's "Most Livable City" in order to buy a car and commute thirty minutes each way into suburbia because the city's corporations have no connection to the city.

4.) I lose respect for any company that prioritizes it's bottom line over the happiness of its employees and over the well-being of its host city. I am then inclined to NOT patronize their lines of business. I've successfully boycotted Wal-Mart for many years now due to how they treat their employees. I make a habit of shopping at Wegman's whenever I'm in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre due to how they treat their employees. I started buying more American Eagle products when they moved their HQ into the city from the exurbs. I will research the lines of business and subsidiaries of U.S. Steel and make every effort to boycott them if they leave the city.

You haven't addressed the various reasons of WHY is may be beneficial to a company to move to the 'burbs. You are so focused on your singular focus of everything should be in the city that you are totally ignoring legitimate business reasons. If you want these companies to stay in business so that people in the area may actually have jobs, you need to look at those reasons. I named a number of them off the top of my head.

You say you lose respect for any company that prioritizes its bottom line over the happiness of its employees. Last I checked, the employees that work for these companies with suburban campuses are among some of the happiest. I know many people who LOVE working for Dick's, Fedex and various companies at Southpointe and in Robinson. They don't miss the commute downtown. With both Southpointe and Robinson, there are a number of places where you can eat lunch and get a drink. Going to a happy hour and having a drink or two does not equal drunk driving. If it does that person has a problem.

Maybe of the people who work for these companies are not in situations similar to you. Young urban professionals are not the only class of people employed by these companies. Many are married with families in the suburbs. (yes yes yes, I know that you think the suburbs are soulless hellholes, but for once try to ignore your own prejudices and look at the bigger picture).

As Caladium said, where is this proof of your allegation that I'm in the minority of people who would like working for a suburban company? This is just your personal opinion. And your view tends to ignore entire groups of people and concentrates on those similarly situated to yourself- young, entry-level professionals without families to support and raise. And maybe your claims may be true for that particular subset of potentially employees, but it does not cut across the board.

I am by no means an expert on transportation, so that's why I didn't address that point.

[LIRefugee]

Originally Posted by Katiana

I do not think people will ever be willing to give up personal transportation. You're not going to put that genie back in the bottle. You may disagree. We'll see.

I actually agree with this; the question is how long will it be cost-effective. I think it depends on the viability of non-gasoline-based engines as gas prices will continue to rise. The problem with oil is that it is a finite resource (not to mention other things I won't mention) with a global demand that is growing VERY fast due to the rise of China, India, and other populous countries. I'm mostly concerned with conserving what resources we have.

I seem to recall reading that the trend towards pod-like development was in large part a reaction to the Cold War and the perceived threat of attacks on the cities of this country. If populations and commercial activities were concentrated in a small area like a typical downtown, then a nuclear strike at a city would have a devastated effect on the economy and the country's ability to function. Decentralizing cities and economic centers would mitigate that risk.

As there are many Heinz production facilities outside of Pittsburgh, a nuclear strike on our city would not eliminate the ability of Americans to find and purchase ketchup.

[Copanut]

I'll take a 10 minute commute to a surbuban campus over a 1 hour bus ride any day. 10 hours a week riding a bus? Don't think so.

And while I also never shop at Wal-Mart, don't think the 2 man boycott is working.

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Someone on another thread pointed out it's hard to make phone calls, etc on public transit, too, where others can listen in.

If only people felt inhibited from making phone calls on public transit for all the world to hear. If only.

Originally Posted by Copanut

And while I also never shop at Wal-Mart, don't think the 2 man boycott is working.

3 man boycott, that is.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by jay5835

If only people felt inhibited from making phone calls on public transit for all the world to hear. If only.

Or anywhere for that matter. Don't get me started!

[Tinare]

Originally Posted by jay5835

If only people felt inhibited from making phone calls on public transit for all the world to hear. If only.

3 man boycott, that is.

3 man/1 woman, I guess...

[LIRefugee]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I'll take a 10 minute commute to a surbuban campus over a 1 hour bus ride any day. 10 hours a week riding a bus? Don't think so.

And while I also never shop at Wal-Mart, don't think the 2 man boycott is working.

And I'd take a 10 minute walk to Bakery Square over a 1 hour drive to Moon any day. It all depends on where you live versus where the job is, and even moving to be close to your job isn't a sure bet of a short and pleasant commute, as I'm sure Westinghouse employees could attest to.

Target is better than Wal-Mart anyway.