Apt's at Federal Cold Storage in Strip (Pittsburgh, Lawrenceville: fit in, apartments)

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by pman

it's not really about which is cheaper but about which is more profitable, generally apartments are profitable. perhaps their "target market" is two cars or perhaps this is new territory for the monroeville based developers who would normally building some garbage surrounded by surface lots and this is actually very little parking for a project in a place like monroeville. remember, it's more than one car per unit, sacrificing some parking might yield .75 cars per unit which assumes that only a portion of residents would be carless or opt for street parking. it's an excellent location for transit use and walking.
it's a quibble, on the whole this project is very good for the area, turning an eyesore into an asset.

You nailed it. Zoning probably requires at least one space per unit and they knew it would appeal to their market if people had the option to pay extra for an additional space.

[pman]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I expect they are making the wrong choice to a degree, but I understand why they are making this choice. ..As long as it's not surface parking though, I'm fine with it. The Strip has enough lots as it is.

yes, I understand, though I'd love to know if its variance driven or not. it still is a big improvement.

Originally Posted by eschaton

Pittsburgh already has too much retail. There are vacant storefronts in every business district I can think of, except maybe in Shadyside. How is adding more retail space a good idea - particularly when it's competing against much cheaper rents a block or two away?

retail in the strip is doing very well and encouraging its expansion towards downtown would be a good thing IMO. does the entire block long building need retail? probably not but no retail will create a big gap from a pedestrian perspective along smallman. I'd probably expect that a restaurant/bar type business would move in. maybe they could get lidia's to move and demolish that crapfest for a better building.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by pman

Retail in the strip is doing very well and encouraging its expansion towards downtown would be a good thing IMO. does the entire block long building need retail? probably not but no retail will create a big gap from a pedestrian perspective along smallman. I'd probably expect that a restaurant/bar type business would move in. maybe they could get lidia's to move and demolish that crapfest for a better building.

I'm not sure I'd say retail in the strip is doing well.

Keep in mind that less than 10 years ago, the Strip had next to no residents, and even today there are probably less than 1,000 people living there. Nearly all of the revenue is still collected as part of the weekend rush.

In addition, many of the Strip's businesses own their buildings, which means they have much lower overhead than new-construction rental would have. So they have a much larger ability to recoup having painfully slow traffic during the week (the Strip is dead from 9-5 during the day, and besides the restaurants, everything closes at 5).

I don't think it's feasible for the gap to close any time within the next decade or two. The 1600 block is pretty dead now below Lotus, but it could come long nicely (the building Lotus is in, along with the 10-story building with the mural, are logical places for more apartments) doing selective infill of the small lots and cruddy buildings. But once you get below 16th, you have four blocks of unimpressive Buncher low-rise offices on the south side of Penn, then the bus station. On the north side, you shouldn't bet on Buncher parting with precious parking lots any time soon. Past the highway, there's some nice buildings for two blocks, but this feels like, and basically is, now an extension of downtown.

[pman]

I'm a bit more bullish, I think this project shows that local developers are starting to realize the potential of "core" projects. if there are a thousand people in the strip today, this project will result in a 20% increase in and of itself. it also goes a good way in closing the gap on penn ave. in the current environment I think that best role the city can play is to heal the sins of the past with regards to the highway and road system gouging the city's core areas.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by pman

the implication isn't that it's high for pittsburgh but that rents would be high enough that sacrificing square footage for extra parking becomes an expense rather than a necessity unless there's something different about the first two floors that makes them hard to use for either more units or retail. generally speaking, people will pay more to house themselves than their car.

People that are able to pay $1800 per month for rent almost universally have cars and need someplace to park them.

As real estate prices have risen out here in L'ville, there are fewer street spaces available for the people here. It was a lot less of a problem in the parking realm 6 years ago when a different mix lived here.

I seen the same thing in the deteriorization of parking opportunities on the South Side from 1995 to 2007.

[greg42]

How many times are they going to change this up? Just hope they do something. It's been 5 years already:

Condos planned at Wholey building - Pittsburgh Business Times

[pman]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

People that are able to pay $1800 per month for rent almost universally have cars and need someplace to park them.

As real estate prices have risen out here in L'ville, there are fewer street spaces available for the people here. It was a lot less of a problem in the parking realm 6 years ago when a different mix lived here.

I seen the same thing in the deteriorization of parking opportunities on the South Side from 1995 to 2007.

OTOH, those people are choosing to live in a place where they park on the street. ample parking is anathema to healthy city neighborhoods.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

People that are able to pay $1800 per month for rent almost universally have cars and need someplace to park them.

As real estate prices have risen out here in L'ville, there are fewer street spaces available for the people here. It was a lot less of a problem in the parking realm 6 years ago when a different mix lived here.

I seen the same thing in the deteriorization of parking opportunities on the South Side from 1995 to 2007.

It's going to continue to build, until there is enough public pressure to dramatically improve mass transit options.

Which is as it should be honestly. The reason middle-class people take the bus downtown isn't because they like the bus, it's because parking in downtown is too much of a hassle and too expensive when weighed against bus fare.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by pman

obviously I was wrong to question the need for large amounts of parking, clearly people will need to drive to the strip, their jobs downtown, the baseball game, etc..

To get to those handfull places you mentioned within a few blocks no you most likely will not be driving (unless at night - many wont want to walk through the strip then), but its naive to think that pittsburgh is truly a city that a relatively affluent person is going to give up their car in. We have a very long way to go transportation wise before we begin to reach that level.

I live where I can easily walk to all of those places you mentioned (& do) but also have 2 vehicles and I would not consider purchasing a place that did not accommodate parking in some manner for me. (And yes I've also lived totally car-free elsewhere; pittsburgh does not meet my transportation needs for such)

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by eschaton

It's going to continue to build, until there is enough public pressure to dramatically improve mass transit options.

Which is as it should be honestly. The reason middle-class people take the bus downtown isn't because they like the bus, it's because parking in downtown is too much of a hassle and too expensive when weighed against bus fare.

Even if every middle class person took the bus to town, its hardly the only place that people go and they still need cars to go shopping, go to jobs outside of town, visit friends and relatives, etc.

And those cars still have to be parked.