Apt's at Federal Cold Storage in Strip (Pittsburgh, York: rental, condos)

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by greg42

Hell we live in the sticks and have been on a car diet for a few years. One car. Entirely doable when you don't have children to shuttle about and you commute to the same general area. Urban places are already a more convenient place to live in many respects, to the people who choose them.

We've never been able to go on a car diet. We always work in different areas. Hubby works in a different county right now. We're in the market for a new vehicle. We've decided that we will go with one car instead of rushing our purchasing decision before the inspection runs out on the vehicle we're replacing. It will be an interesting few months having one car. With my husband working an hour away from home, it will take four hours out of my day to drive him to/from work if I need the car for an appointment that isn't downtown. That's not a life I plan to live for long.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Dream on. They'll find a more convenient place to live.

Why is it then that in old cities in the Northeast and Midwest the neighborhoods which are doing the best are the ones where parking is scarce? Where did they make more parking spots in the North End of Boston? Or Dupont Circle in DC? Or Rittenhouse Square in Philly?

Admittedly, those people for whom having good parking is important will find places where they can have that (and either pay out the nose if it's in a central city location, or move to suburban-like environment). But once a city has enough demand there are plenty of 0-1 car middle-class households who will pick those sort of environments.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Why is it then that in old cities in the Northeast and Midwest the neighborhoods which are doing the best are the ones where parking is scarce? Where did they make more parking spots in the North End of Boston? Or Dupont Circle in DC? Or Rittenhouse Square in Philly? .

Available transportation options are much greater in those places mentioned then here.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Available transportation options are much greater in those places mentioned then here.

Of course, but it doesn't have to be merely inherited from a pre-car time period. Central LA has been "densifying" for several decades now - moving away from single-family homes to more dense apartments, and ramping up its mass transit with new busways and light rail. It's working - people are moving into the new denser neighborhoods around downtown and the new transit lines, not avoiding them due to lack of parking. The city is still more autocentric than most major U.S. cities in the Northeast or Midwest, but far better than it's been since the trolley system was dismantled.

Admittedly, there are political/funding issues with our own local transit which make it more difficult. But I've noted before that despite being in much worse shape than Pittsburgh in terms of population loss, decline, crime, etc - Cleveland manages to have a much better transit system than we do, even though it's in a more conservative (and thus presumably less pro-mass transit) state. If Cleveland can do it (or Saint Louis, for that matter) we should be able to as well.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Of course, but it doesn't have to be merely inherited from a pre-car time period. Central LA has been "densifying" for several decades now - moving away from single-family homes to more dense apartments, and ramping up its mass transit with new busways and light rail. It's working - people are moving into the new denser neighborhoods around downtown and the new transit lines, not avoiding them due to lack of parking. The city is still more autocentric than most major U.S. cities in the Northeast or Midwest, but far better than it's been since the trolley system was dismantled.

Admittedly, there are political/funding issues with our own local transit which make it more difficult. But I've noted before that despite being in much worse shape than Pittsburgh in terms of population loss, decline, crime, etc - Cleveland manages to have a much better transit system than we do, despite being in a more conservative (and thus presumably less pro-mass transit) state. If Cleveland can do it (or Saint Louis, for that matter) we should be able to as well.

I don't disagree that it's possible to have a car-less area & have a willing population to live there, just that you first need a large & well integrated transportation network (including both in the city & links outside of it) before such a proposition can be viable & Pittsburgh is very far from anything approaching such a model thus at the moment it makes complete sense for a developer to want to offer good parking options in order to lure tenants who most assuredly have a car or 2.

[pman]

Originally Posted by UKyank

I don't disagree that it's possible to have a car-less area & have a willing population to live there, just that you first need a large & well integrated transportation network (including both in the city & links outside of it) before such a proposition can be viable & Pittsburgh is very far from anything approaching such a model thus at the moment it makes complete sense for a developer to want to offer good parking options in order to lure tenants who most assuredly have a car or 2.

it doesn't work that way, you first need the population, then you add the service as parking becomes scarce and people are riding existing transit. the part of the city that is in question isn't the west end village but a place with good access to transit. it's a ten minute walk from the busway downtown, on several bus lines. transit is actually useful.

Originally Posted by Hopes

Dream on. They'll find a more convenient place to live.

you mean like in the strip? it seems that you can't fathom other people living a life different from yours. pittsburgh offers plenty of low density car centric places to live, that's not the strip near downtown is going to be.

[pman]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Available transportation options are much greater in those places mentioned then here.

we're talking about less cars, in philly they're building apartments with NO parking whatsoever in center city...something that hasn't happened in decades because of zoning requirements of one space per unit (anything less required a variance). that's still true, but variances are now much easier to come by for center city. the new zoning lets developers get points for things like bike parking and car sharing spaces that allow them to trade down on the number of spaces. despite a much better transit system, a smaller proportion of jobs are in or close to center city Philadelphia than in Pittsburgh. Of course, a large portion of the people who live in center city or the surrounding neighborhoods have a least one member of the household working downtown. i suspect the same will be true of these places.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by pman

it doesn't work that way, you first need the population, then you add the service as parking becomes scarce and people are riding existing transit. the part of the city that is in question isn't the west end village but a place with good access to transit. it's a ten minute walk from the busway downtown, on several bus lines. transit is actually useful.

you mean like in the strip? it seems that you can't fathom other people living a life different from yours. pittsburgh offers plenty of low density car centric places to live, that's not the strip near downtown is going to be.

We'll just have to agree to disagree that you can get people to give up their cars first & wait for replacement options or that our current bus lines are a good enough alternative for someone that can otherwise afford a car to ditch it.

[pman]

Originally Posted by UKyank

We'll just have to agree to disagree that you can get people to give up their cars first & wait for replacement options or that our current bus lines are a good enough alternative for someone that can otherwise afford a car.

I suppose so. the reality is, everyone has different breaking points. how can we argue for more transit if no one rides? as more people live in this section, more people will use transit. I'd guess they'd choose to drive to the south side but they'd have good transit to/from downtown and decent transit (but could be better) to the burgeoning scene in lawrenceville. of course, there's a missing factor, cabs. anyway, parking aside (these guys atleast aren't building 2 spaces per unit) this is a great project since it's a dead space right now and the building itself is an eyesore.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by Hopes

t will be an interesting few months having one car. With my husband working an hour away from home, it will take four hours out of my day to drive him to/from work if I need the car for an appointment that isn't downtown. That's not a life I plan to live for long.

Just rent a car on the days you need one. Since you've already decided to forgo the car for a couple months I guess this would now be an "extra" cost, but you would otherwise sink some of that into extra gas and a ton of extra time.