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More tax dollars for badly needed infrastructure
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Traffic is a temporary concern that, at minimum, is solvable by an easy solution - don’t drive in areas of high traffic if you don’t like traffic. Housing prices, including rents and purchase prices are probably the only real valid concern.
How can you claim this will bring more tax dollars for infrastructure improvement when you don't know what kind of tax incentives/exemptions have been offered to Amazon?
Do you not drive on 28 or the Parkway? This entire region is a series of "you can't get there from here, you have to go through a bottleneck because we only designed one way to get there" type routes.. traffic gets worse and worse every day. Yesterday, traffic was backed up the entire way across the 31st St Bridge.
The infrastructure here is already inadequate for existing needs - coupled with the lackadaisical Yinzer culture's approach to maintenance - it's going to be one of Dante's Circles of Hell if we add thousands of more residents. Except we don't have a damn Beltway highway system in this region, so it wouldn't even be a Circle of Hell - it would just be Hell.
Yup. The population decline is from a lot of old people dying, and Amazon won't be looking to hire them anyway.
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Originally Posted by Mtl-Cns
Yeah if anything it would make for more room, fewer dissidents, and help to insure a lower cost of living.
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Originally Posted by _Buster
Pittsburgh is not statistically declining, if you factor in the huge margins of error for those annual pop. estimates. It's well within margin of error, and the last revised estimate showed an increase.
All of you can believe what you want or spin it as to make it look positive. If old people are dying, people aren’t moving or staying here to replace them either. Tomato or Toma to. Either way the city is declining. It is a risky bet for any company to move here when 50 percent of the college grads leave the area elsewhere for work and we are still the least diverse and oldest regions in the US.
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Originally Posted by Enough_Already
This is not about bumper stickers. This is about real taxpayer dollars. The politicians on this area of pulled the wool over the eyes of the taxpayers over and over again and they handed the taxpayers the bill. The taxpayers have a right to know how much of the taxpayers money has been promised to Amazon.
Amen. It’s amazing how much faith people put in those running the polical system here. For the last 70 years the region has been in decline clinging to a broken antiquated system. There has been no historical or current evidence that the local politicians from either party have looked out for the residents best interests. What gives people so much faith they would do right thing now after all of this time? They don’t want to share this package because it is probably loaded with shady deals and potential corruption. No different than any big deal in Pittsburgh over the last century. Any big development deal stinks of corruption and bad politics. Look at the stadiums on the north shore, look at the north shore connector, destruction of the hill district and main business are of the north side. Or how about the current arena site or PWSA. I could go on and on with examples. Only foolish people believe things will change. Names change and that’s it. Everything else stays the same
It’s the equivalent of focusing on extinguishing a match when a forest fire is burning out of control behind your back. We tend to focus on the match.
Will the higher wages be higher than the increased rent and other prices?
Will this help, or hurt, the average Pittsburgher?
That's the type of discussion we should be having. What sort of tax breaks were promised to Amazon?
Or is this going to be more of the same from this region's braindead populace and pandering politicians: the working class and middle class can subsidize the poor and the wealthy? We love to subsidize 'affordable housing' for certain demographics, and we love to subsidize flashy new apartments for our new techie Übermensch overlords... but God forbid we talk about any sort of middle-class interests for the average person here.
Just so I (and everyone who's interested) understands correctly: so you're opposed to the tech boom taking place in Pittsburgh at this time? Your rather childish labeling (subsidize flashy new apartments for our new techie Übermensch overlords) tends to raise doubts about "tech" in your worldview and also a limited knowledge of "subsidizing flashy new apartments" among a bunch of other things.
And since you're labeling anyone that supports Pittsburgh's bid for HQ2 as "braindead", I think I have the freedom to state that I believe anyone that speaks about things they really don't know AND uses hyper-hyperbole to try to "shout down" someone that thinks differently AND uses ad hominems to advance their position truly has nothing to say at all.....
Yep. He also forgot more jobs for our entire population. A more diversified economy. A greater tax basis to build new infrastructure and repair old, etc etc etc.
Is Pittsburgh the only city of the 20 finalists to be declining in population. It would be a risky bet for them to come here indeed.
Watching community groups and non profits fight over their slice of the pie in east liberty for fair housing has been a huge debacle. That is tiny compared to this animal. Could you imagine the lawsuits, protesting and fighting if amazon hq came here. Everybody would come with their hands out. It would never get built. It would be a disaster for them.
Context. Try it sometime.
Population decline. Fine. I submit the Pittsburgh Turnaround will attract much more attention than the ever-slowing decrease in population. Either you don't get out much or you have an agenda to intentionally close your eyes, but Pittsburgh's recovery is being covered and documented by countless sources throughout the country. Rather than a black-mark, Pittsburgh's story, including population, is surely one of its strongest points. The only people that spout "POPULATION" are those that add no context to the numbers. I suspect Amazon folks know more about Pittsburgh's population than you do.
The "Huge Debacle". What? You think that's a huge debacle. What a hoot. That's normal in-fighting from competing interest. And it too should be informed by context. Any city in the country has the same competing interests. You're literally inventing "issues".
"Can you imagine! Lawsuits! Protesting! Fights! Everyone with hands out! It would NEVER get built!! It will be a disaster for Amazon!!!. Seriously? I mean,...seriously? I trust that you can see just how silly this "argument" is. Please don't go here in the future, because it the average person "roll-eyes" about everything you present.
All of you can believe what you want or spin it as to make it look positive. If old people are dying, people aren’t moving or staying here to replace them either. Tomato or Toma to. Either way the city is declining. It is a risky bet for any company to move here when 50 percent of the college grads leave the area elsewhere for work and we are still the least diverse and oldest regions in the US.
I would refer to the exact same text used on the Pittsburgh forum previously, but those comments were removed because it was same troll.
Notice someone with virtually no posts comes and trollsplains Pittsburgh's population...
Population decline. Fine. I submit the Pittsburgh Turnaround will attract much more attention than the ever-slowing decrease in population. Either you don't get out much or you have an agenda to intentionally close your eyes, but Pittsburgh's recovery is being covered and documented by countless sources throughout the country. Rather than a black-mark, Pittsburgh's story, including population, is surely one of its strongest points. The only people that spout "POPULATION" are those that add no context to the numbers. I suspect Amazon folks know more about Pittsburgh's population than you do.
The "Huge Debacle". What? You think that's a huge debacle. What a hoot. That's normal in-fighting from competing interest. And it too should be informed by context. Any city in the country has the same competing interests. You're literally inventing "issues".
"Can you imagine! Lawsuits! Protesting! Fights! Everyone with hands out! It would NEVER get built!! It will be a disaster for Amazon!!!. Seriously? I mean,...seriously? I trust that you can see just how silly this "argument" is. Please don't go here in the future, because it the average person "roll-eyes" about everything you present.
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Originally Posted by JoeP
I would refer to the exact same text used on the Pittsburgh forum previously, but those comments were removed because it was same troll.
Notice someone with virtually no posts comes and trollsplains Pittsburgh's population...
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Originally Posted by PghYinzer
Same troll posts about "maximizing 401k inputs while young, and retiring to low cost areas”...this one is easy to spot. If Columbus is so great, I am not sure why they spend their free time posting this crap over and over again.
Amazon is going to choose Pittsburgh. It will be a a tide that lifts all boats. The population decline will reverse and the income equality will magically erase. People aren’t going to fight. The city and its residents are going to welcome them with open arms. The politicians of this city will be remembered fondly like president FDR for growing the ecomy. PWSA will become a solvent agency delivering the best and most lead free water in the US. It will be like drinking spring water from the Rockies. The amazon package is the most fair and looks out for the citizens of Pittsburgh. Amazon will decide to partner with these great politicians and provide affordable housing. Home wood will become the next model for gentrification. Pittsburgh public schools will become blue ribbon, exceeding USC and mt Lebanon. Mayor Peduto is so enthralled with amazon he decides to drop the wage tax from 3 to 1 percent. Pittsburgh is the next Mecca in the new economy.
I believe the new troll is the old Zman who's been booted from this board many times.
So anybody who disagrees with either of you is a troll. I don’t understand. There appears to be a healthy debate lacking from this thread. It is all one sided with nobody wanting to reason with those that disagree. Maybe you both are the trolls. Continue to have everything censored and watch the participation drop.
I was pointing out Pittsburgh’s problems won’t be solved with amazon. It will be a positive step with jobs, but current residents will put up a fight and community groups will sue. It takes years to change culture. It will be a long drag to the finish line if this happens. And most residents will feel the pain in their wallet with rising costs.
I was pointing out Pittsburgh’s problems won’t be solved with amazon. It will be a positive step with jobs, but current residents will put up a fight and community groups will sue. It takes years to change culture. It will be a long drag to the finish line if this happens. And most residents will feel the pain in their wallet with rising costs.
This is very true. Whether you are for Amazon coming, against it, or unsure, this take is impossible to argue. Nothing about Amazon coming will be easy, and there is a strong potential for short term pain for current residents, and a reasonable likelihood of longer term pain in the housing market and infrastructure without careful planning and execution. Count me among those who think it is worth the risk, though.
So anybody who disagrees with either of you is a troll. I don’t understand. There appears to be a healthy debate lacking from this thread. It is all one sided with nobody wanting to reason with those that disagree. Maybe you both are the trolls. Continue to have everything censored and watch the participation drop.
I was pointing out Pittsburgh’s problems won’t be solved with amazon. It will be a positive step with jobs, but current residents will put up a fight and community groups will sue. It takes years to change culture. It will be a long drag to the finish line if this happens. And most residents will feel the pain in their wallet with rising costs.
Maybe you're not a troll...Voice of Doom maybe.
I doubt that any of the 200 or so cities that applied nor any of the 20 finalists for Amazon HQ2 expected their city to become a utopia in short order. That includes Pittsburgh. Being upbeat about the prospects that Amazon may bring does not automatically mean that someone is naive to the potential drawbacks. I don't know about you, but I like to accentuate the positive. Is getting Amazon mostly a positive? Hell yes it is. That is why better than 200 cities tried to woo them.
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