How are small local restaurants and cafes going to survive the winter? (Republic: live in, places)

[Doowlle34]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

I've been very open with you Doowlee34, and I've addressed all of your questions. Please give me the same courtesy and tell me how you would refer to a government that I have described above.
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I did read through those majority and dissenting opinions from back in July very quickly. One point here -- certainly the majority justices are from the same political party as the Governor (and heck, come to find out, one of the justices was even born in Ellwood City), but it is not as if Wolf cleaned-house when he was elected and put in a bunch of sycophants. I also wonder whether, even when the PA legislature passes its resolution in June, a majority of Pennsylvanians would have supported such action. Doesn't this also raise questions about the robustness of our democracy -- if a majority of state legislators are pursuing a course of action that is not favored by a majority of the citizens. Ultimately, a super majority could still override Wolf's veto -- I'm not sure how many dictatorships included this feature. Super majorities may be rare, but heck, Congress just served one up to President Trump on the defense spending bill.

[erieguy]

Wolf isn’t going anywhere unless he can’t physically finish his term. Hopefully after that he’s put out to pasture if he doesn’t do it himself.

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by PghPatriot

You spit out a bunch of documents that state existing procedures, that have little to do with COVID.

If you're truly curious why this is different, start here.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1

If you're anything like your like-"minded" friend on here, I'm certain that you're being disingenuous and aren't interested in becoming educated.

But if you want to be a luddite and ignore science, I won't cry when you die being unhooked from a ventilator.

Those existing procedures demonstrate why I have concerns about the long-term safety and efficacy of the COVID vaccines.

The article that you shared was interesting in terms of how the vaccines were developed, and how throwing a mountain of money at the problem did help get a 'solution' more quickly (multiple candidates were researched and developed in parallel, with money being seemingly no object).

Vaccine researchers were fortunate with SARS-CoV-2 in many respects, says Iwasaki. The virus doesn’t mutate a lot or have effective strategies for foiling the human immune system, she says, unlike HIV, herpes or even influenza.

Ok..
the article that you shared was published on 18 December.
On 22 December, NPR published the following:

A new variant of the coronavirus is spreading rapidly in England and raising international alarms. This new variant now accounts for more than 60% of the cases in London. And scientists say the variant is likely more contagious than previous versions of the virus.

Health officials have closed international travel to the United Kingdom. The British government has locked down much of the country. And scientists all over the world are rushing to figure out how the virus mutated and how big a threat the new variant poses.

Throughout this pandemic, SARS-CoV-2 — the virus that causes COVID-19 — has been mutating. It has accumulated about one or two mutations each month. That's not surprising. Viruses always mutate.

But this new variant in the U.K., called B.1.1.7, has acquired mutations much quicker than scientists expect. The variant has 17 different mutations in its genetic code. And eight of those mutations occur in a critical part of the virus, called the spike protein, which reaches out and binds to human cells during the initial stages of infection.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...need-to-find-o

The article that you posted as established science was contradicted less than a week later by new developments. I don't want the same thing to happen to my body after I put the vaccine, that has not been studied in any long-term way, into it.

So either the science is not established and is constantly evolving (and therefore there's logical reason to be skeptical of the long-term safety and efficacy of the vaccine) OR the media is sensationalizing and fear-mongering and therefore some of society's mitigation strategies are overblown and unwarranted. Logically, it is one or the other. So which do you prefer to stand behind?

Although there has been no relaxing of the stringent criteria for vaccine approval, the first candidates are mostly being approved under emergency-use regulations. These are faster but require companies to conduct follow-up surveys to look for side effects and continuing efficacy.

This statement from the article that you posted again proves my point in that long-term side-effects of these vaccines are utterly unknown.

Originally Posted by PghPatriot

But if you want to be a luddite and ignore science, I won't cry when you die being unhooked from a ventilator.

Wow. Thanks so much for your smugness and your wish for my death.
I work in the health field. I've been exposed to the virus and was quarantined for two weeks.
My step-dad had a confirmed case of the virus with only mild symptoms for a few days.
My mom is a healthcare worker who treats COVID patients and does not plan to receive the vaccine.
The mother of my child is an infectious disease physician who was likewise apprehensive about the vaccine.
My dad and his girlfriend were recently quarantined after being exposed to a positive case - neither of them contracted the disease.
My fiancee's whole family had the disease. Her children had no symptoms, she had flu-like symptoms for a few days, her father had to go to the ER once due to difficulty breathing but was not admitted, and her grandmother was intubated and died from the virus. But she was also elderly. And yet 20 members of her family gathered together shoulder-to-shoulder to celebrate Christmas together. They realize that life must go on.

So my family and I all know that this virus is real, but we also all know that its not the plague.

[tyovan4]

Youre a real peach yourself. Keep drinking the KoolAid while looking down your nose on those of us who have retained our critical thinking abilities.

Im the idiot, yet youre the one who posted the article that proved the points that I was making. People like you are sending the world to Hades because of not being able to discern any nuance.

[PghPatriot]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

Youre a real peach yourself. Keep drinking the KoolAid while looking down your nose on those of us who have retained our critical thinking abilities.

Im the idiot, yet youre the one who posted the article that proved the points that I was making. People like you are sending the world to Hades because of not being able to discern any nuance.

People like you are killing not only people with COVID but also people who need the hospital resources that COVID patients are taking up. Now in some places if you have a stroke or heart attack you don’t get to go to a hospital. You’re left to die because there’s not enough resources.

I’m out of fuks to give to your feelings.

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by PghPatriot

People like you are killing not only people with COVID but also people who need the hospital resources that COVID patients are taking up. Now in some places if you have a stroke or heart attack you don’t get to go to a hospital. You’re left to die because there’s not enough resources.

I’m out of fuks to give to your feelings.

And I'm out of fuks to give to your illogical and dictatorial feelings induced by the BS that the media and your liberal politicians feed you to instill fear and group think. Youd have been one of the folks singing The Internationale or the Horst Wessel Song because you believed that its "for the greater good".

Out of my story, the only person who needed hospital inpatient resources was my fiancee's grandmother... and guess what? As a geriatric she couldve needed inpatient resources anyway! If it wasn't COVID it could've been a heart attack or a stroke or a fall tomorrow... do you know how much time you have left on Earth? Did she? Should she have stayed locked in her basement living in a bubble indefinitely until the pandemic ends? After all, we're coming up on month 10 of two weeks to flatten the curve.

At least I engaged you based on facts and with sources. But then you resorted to flippant personal attacks since you couldn't counter my facts with actual facts of your own - heck the facts that you provided proved my point!

You are indeed a medical marvel, and maybe Presby and Pitt should make you the subject of a study... I didn't know it was possible for someone to drink the Kool-Aid with their head stuck so far up their rear end, but you've proved its possible. Maybe we should wait until the pandemic is declared over, after all you certainly wouldn't want to tie up any medical resources.. which, by the way, I certainly hope that you haven't used the healthcare delivery system since the pandemic began or you'd be what's known as a hypocrite...

[PghPatriot]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

And I'm out of fuks to give to your illogical and dictatorial feelings induced by the BS that the media and your liberal politicians feed you to instill fear and group think. Youd have been one of the folks singing The Internationale or the Horst Wessel Song because you believed that its "for the greater good".

Out of my story, the only person who needed hospital inpatient resources was my fiancee's grandmother... and guess what? As a geriatric she couldve needed inpatient resources anyway! If it wasn't COVID it could've been a heart attack or a stroke or a fall tomorrow... do you know how much time you have left on Earth? Did she? Should she have stayed locked in her basement living in a bubble indefinitely until the pandemic ends? After all, we're coming up on month 10 of two weeks to flatten the curve.

At least I engaged you based on facts and with sources. But then you resorted to flippant personal attacks since you couldn't counter my facts with actual facts of your own - heck the facts that you provided proved my point!

You are indeed a medical marvel, and maybe Presby and Pitt should make you the subject of a study... I didn't know it was possible for someone to drink the Kool-Aid with their head stuck so far up their rear end, but you've proved its possible. Maybe we should wait until the pandemic is declared over, after all you certainly wouldn't want to tie up any medical resources.. which, by the way, I certainly hope that you haven't used the healthcare delivery system since the pandemic began or you'd be what's known as a hypocrite...

You can put the nazi comparisons away and save it for the cult members.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...way-ambulances

Given a choice, I’d much rather anti-vax morons like you be refused service at hospitals and left to die rather than innocent people, but then again you don’t have the courage of your convictions to self exclude because of your poor selfish choices.

You’re a barnacle on society

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by PghPatriot

You can put the nazi comparisons away and save it for the cult members.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...way-ambulances

Given a choice, I’d much rather anti-vax morons like you be refused service at hospitals and left to die rather than innocent people, but then again you don’t have the courage of your convictions to self exclude because of your poor selfish choices.

You’re a barnacle on society

Don’t recall anyone saying they’re anti-vax, just simply being wary of a vaccine that has already shown to have serious side effects.

[Doowlle34]

So Erie -- where do you come out -- just skeptical but ultimately will get vaccine? Prior to Ty's references, I hadn't been aware of this developing story about the vaccine refuseniks -- although much of the reporting appears to have come out in the last few days. That said, given that you've picked up on this, I'm now fearful that we are in a countdown mode until Trump tweets out some anti-Trump vaccine news story/opinion piece.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Doowlle34

So Erie -- where do you come out -- just skeptical but ultimately will get vaccine? Prior to Ty's references, I hadn't been aware of this developing story about the vaccine refuseniks -- although much of the reporting appears to have come out in the last few days. That said, given that you've picked up on this, I'm now fearful that we are in a countdown mode until Trump tweets out some anti-Trump vaccine news story/opinion piece.

I’ll wait to see what happens. I’m certainly not going to jump the gun on a vaccine that has serious side effects. After all, 40+ years of HIV research, 100+ years of cancer research(no worries cause Sleepy Joe gonna solve that), and no vaccine, but only 10 months to stop a doomsday virus.

Don’t be scared. Trump isn’t really a big meanie.